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Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

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Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#131

Post by 23B1 »

Alupis wrote: post #110
23B1 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people on reddit wanted to get paid for their opinions, they wouldn't be posting them for free on a publicly accessible forum that does not even require an account to view... People post on the internet 'for free' with the expectation that they're discussing ideas which have their own value, not providing training data. Yeah yeah ToS blah blah blah, but the goodwill that sites have built – even ones like HN – is…

Except you were "enriching shareholders" before. How did Reddit become so valuable and earn so much revenue in the first place?

I was enriching them by agreeing to view ads – not granting unlimited and perpetual use of my intellectual labor. One is a fair exchange of value, the other is highly exploitative.

Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#133

Post by AH4oFVbPT4f8 »

iteratethis wrote: post #129

When I first learned that AI companies are vacuuming up all internet content without any regard for permission, attribution or compensation for the content creator, I found that deeply immoral. I figured they should pay for it. But now that they do (in this instance), I'm realizing this might be even worse. They can just buy the entire market in the same way they buy Google search users by paying Apple billions a yea…

This was one of the reasons I no longer contribute to reddit. I don't post, comment, upvote nor downvote. I'll still consume it from time to time, something I try to stop doing. All I can do is vote with my money and my time and I try to spend it else where.

Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#135

Post by Ajay-p »

jiveturkey42 wrote: post #15

AI is about to become really sarcastic, pedantic, and absurdly moralistic

I don't understand why they chose Reddit, was 4Chan not willing? Seriously though, why not use the comment and discussion sections of Wikipedia and other sites that are not drowning in social insanity.

Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#136

Post by Ajay-p »

lolpanda wrote: post #106

Reddit blocks all search engines from crawling their comments, essentially blocking all user generated contents. See this directive in https://www.reddit.com/robots.txt `Disallow: /r/ /comments/ / / /*` But I can still search Reddit on Google. How does Google manage to get the data?

Does Reddit really block all search engines, or do "all" search engines abide by No Spiders? If it's freely available it's ripe for scraping, no matter what Reddit may say.

Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#137

Post by asadotzler »

tyingq wrote: post #66
paxys wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It is pointless to compare total company value with an annual payment. 2. It isn't an exclusive license. There are dozens of companies training language models, and if they are all forced to pay the same amount then that's some serious cash.

>1. It is pointless to compare total company value with an annual payment. Mozilla being an exception, I suppose?

Mozilla has a billion in the bank and half a billion annual revenue with a 19 year track record on that contract. They spend most of that revenue each year, but any that's left over finds its way into the bank growing that sum. I'd wager Mozilla is worth considerably more than a single year of revenue if that's what you were suggesting. At a minimum they're worth their cash on hand, and some multiple of that revenue, perhaps 10x or even 20x so that would put Mozilla's company value at least around $6B, and I'd expect the Mozilla Foundation could easily get that kind of money for MoCo+Firefox if it decided to sell. Mozilla doesn't have growth, but it's got regular and significant income and has had that for longer than most of today's SV companies earning similar amounts.

Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#138

Post by asadotzler »

iteratethis wrote: post #129

When I first learned that AI companies are vacuuming up all internet content without any regard for permission, attribution or compensation for the content creator, I found that deeply immoral. I figured they should pay for it. But now that they do (in this instance), I'm realizing this might be even worse. They can just buy the entire market in the same way they buy Google search users by paying Apple billions a yea…

Section 230 lets them pretend they don't own the content, shielding them from liability, yet they can simultaneously claim ownership enough to sell it. That's effed up. Either it's not theirs, it's mine or ours, in which case I get to sell it or at least get a cut, or it's theirs in which case they're liable for any illicit content and should face those suits. Which is it, Silicon Valley? Is my post yours or is it mine? You shouldn't get to have it both ways.

Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#139

Post by tyingq »

asadotzler wrote: post #137
tyingq wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. It is pointless to compare total company value with an annual payment. Mozilla being an exception, I suppose?

Mozilla has a billion in the bank and half a billion annual revenue with a 19 year track record on that contract. They spend most of that revenue each year, but any that's left over finds its way into the bank growing that sum. I'd wager Mozilla is worth considerably more than a single year of revenue if that's what you were suggesting. At a minimum they're worth their cash on hand, and some multiple of that revenue,…

I'm not suggesting they are worth a single year of revenue.

But 80+% of their revenue, and probably the highest margin bit of revenue, comes from that Google payment. So whatever their value is, hinges on that contract payment. Thus, the multiple is interesting....where you might "compare total company value with an annual payment" to see what that mathematical relationship is. Especially given their rapidly declining market share.

Re: Google cut a deal with Reddit for AI training data

#140

Post by asadotzler »

Fervicus wrote: post #125
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any ideas that make you uncomfortable are an "agenda" now.

Attempting to rewrite history and racism regardless of the race involved makes me uncomfortable yes. Do you disagree that Google had an agenda when they programmed their AI to do the things it does?

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