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An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

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Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#31

Post by patcon »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #29
patcon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel for you, but I would humbly suggest trying to get to the root of this. In all sincerity, therapy is good for this sort of thing. I have similar desires, but I have come to understand them as quite dysfunctional, and not something that should be catered to by the system around me. Because the real/natural world doesn't work that way. it's very ill-adapted to real life learning. Only in a constructed and false e…

> but I understand them as quite dysfunctional, and not something that should be catered to I'd be happier to accept this if you'd explain why it's dysfunctional.

Maybe my rationale was just unconvincing to you (and I respect that), but I said it in the next paragraph. If you felt inclined to offer what's unconvincing about that, I'm open-minded about changing my perspective, or maybe I can better articulate beyond those words

EDIT: I realize maybe I prematurely submitted and it was just the first paragraph for a minute. It was all one thought, so apologies if that's what happened

Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#32

Post by juniperror »

patcon wrote: post #16
juniperror wrote: post #12

> and never coughs up answers. I have fought this my whole life, and only in my adulthood, and self guided learning, have I found the freedom to accept it: I learn better from being given the answer and working backwards. (Even literally reading textbooks “backwards”) I hope there’s more nuance to this than this quote suggests, because I shudder to imagine a student experiencing what I did but now with a tireless une…

I feel for you, but I would humbly suggest trying to get to the root of this. In all sincerity, therapy is good for this sort of thing. I have similar desires, but I have come to understand them as quite dysfunctional, and not something that should be catered to by the system around me. Because the real/natural world doesn't work that way. it's very ill-adapted to real life learning. Only in a constructed and false e…

> I would try to get to the root of this.

I guess you could amend the old adage to “on the internet everyone thinks you’re a dog”.

I am decades removed from advanced university degrees.

I am saying how I, as in me, learn best, and acknowledging that it’s different.

My point was why restrict a “generalist engine” to only teach one specific way.

All the old restrictions that pander to: this is how the text book is written, there is only one teacher and 30 students; are baggage and should be discarded in their absence.

I made my educational intentions clear:

> That quote should have read ~“the agent has been designed to work tirelessly to do anything to ensure the student understands the material well enough to wield it”

But I do like and agree with one point you made:

> but also to learn how to acquire future information.

What’s the student learning in regard to acquire future information? To hope some megacorp will steal all of humanity’s creative output to build an llm to teach it to them?

Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#33

Post by nicklecompte »

God this first paragraph made me want to throw my computer across the room:

> Remember when people were furious about kids using ChatGPT to cheat on their homework? If I may be so bold as to psychoanalyze the United States of America, it’s possible the hysteria was not entirely about homework but also the speed with which artificial intelligence was infiltrating our daily lives. How else do you explain so many people defending the sanctity of a thing none of them ever wanted to do?

"When you were 13 years old you wanted to cheat on your homework, did you not? But now that you're 45 and your son is using ChatGPT to cheat on his homework, suddenly you're upset. Curious. Perhaps the issue is your own discomfort with technology your feeble brain can't understand?"

Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#34

Post by itronitron »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #24
juniperror wrote: post #12

> and never coughs up answers. I have fought this my whole life, and only in my adulthood, and self guided learning, have I found the freedom to accept it: I learn better from being given the answer and working backwards. (Even literally reading textbooks “backwards”) I hope there’s more nuance to this than this quote suggests, because I shudder to imagine a student experiencing what I did but now with a tireless une…

> Aligning digital teachers with our broken education system that thinks “answers” are the important part of education is a terrible terrible idea. Your position is inherently incorrect and a conflation of what you think is being done. Being provided the answer might be a decent method to learning X concept. But the answer is ALWAYS downwind of the techniques, which you are actually being taught every step of the way…

But if you are provided the answer, you can work backwards to figure out the technique. There is a large contingent here on HN that learned electronics by taking things apart, not by reading linearly through textbooks.

Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#35

Post by prophesi »

Aaronstotle wrote: post #7

I think the people who automatically had a negative view of AI didn't think it through, when ChatGPT came out in Nov 2022, the realization was that something like this tutor friendly AI would be on the horizon. Personally, I am looking forward to AI enabled healthcare, my sister has been dealing with health problems and she has to wait up to a month between appointments. At the very least AI can be used to speed up a…

The industry tried using AI to help with that last year, and it was quickly shut down[0] after UnitedHealth / Humana were sued for using blatantly flawed AI projections. It could definitely be used to improve aspects of healthcare, but the profit motive will be at odds with this goal in most cases.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/02/ai-cannot-be-used-to...

Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#36

Post by patcon »

juniperror wrote: post #32
patcon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel for you, but I would humbly suggest trying to get to the root of this. In all sincerity, therapy is good for this sort of thing. I have similar desires, but I have come to understand them as quite dysfunctional, and not something that should be catered to by the system around me. Because the real/natural world doesn't work that way. it's very ill-adapted to real life learning. Only in a constructed and false e…

> I would try to get to the root of this. I guess you could amend the old adage to “on the internet everyone thinks you’re a dog”. I am decades removed from advanced university degrees. I am saying how I, as in me, learn best, and acknowledging that it’s different. My point was why restrict a “generalist engine” to only teach one specific way. All the old restrictions that pander to: this is how the text book is writ…

Hm. Y'know what... I regret my comment. It felt ungenerous and obnoxious to write, and I tried to change the tone in edits, but it still feels gross.

Maybe just consider my comment self-talk. I guess your comment hit a nerve with familiarity, and I ended up talking to myself more than speaking to you. I apologize for that. And thanks for the original sincere comment. I'm sure others have seen it and at least some of them felt a little less alone in the weird world of our own brains <3

Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#37

Post by julienchastang »

edtechdev wrote: post #10

It struggles with basic math: https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/ai-is-tutoring-students-but-stil...

I've done a lot of experimentation in this space with ChatGPT4 and also the Wolfram plugin. I've mixed but generally good results when working through basic physics problems though you have to be careful about how you prompt. In particular, you want to break down the problem into smaller bite size chunks and eliminate ancillary information. Interestingly, even when it gets the math and algebra wrong, I still find it useful because it gives me hints about how to approach the exercise. Sometimes having several parallel conversations with the Wolfram plugin, for example, can set you on the right track. I expect there will be significant improvements in this arena in the short term.

Re: An 'education legend' has created an AI that will change your mind about AI

#38

Post by itronitron »

patcon wrote: post #16
juniperror wrote: post #12

> and never coughs up answers. I have fought this my whole life, and only in my adulthood, and self guided learning, have I found the freedom to accept it: I learn better from being given the answer and working backwards. (Even literally reading textbooks “backwards”) I hope there’s more nuance to this than this quote suggests, because I shudder to imagine a student experiencing what I did but now with a tireless une…

I feel for you, but I would humbly suggest trying to get to the root of this. In all sincerity, therapy is good for this sort of thing. I have similar desires, but I have come to understand them as quite dysfunctional, and not something that should be catered to by the system around me. Because the real/natural world doesn't work that way. it's very ill-adapted to real life learning. Only in a constructed and false e…

>> Because the real/natural world doesn't work that way. it's very ill-adapted to real life learning.

Actually, the real/natural world is perfectly adapted to real life learning.

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