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Gemma: New Open Models

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Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#301

Post by throwup238 »

robswc wrote: post #287
verticalscaler wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are being biased and closed minded and overly critical. Here are some wonderful examples of it generating images of historical figures: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1760187341468270686 This will lead to a better educated more fair populace and better future for all.

Comical. I don't think parody could do better. I'm going to assume given today's political climate, it doesn't do the reverse? i.e. generate a Scandinavian if you ask for famous African kings

> i.e. generate a Scandinavian if you ask for famous African kings

That triggers the imperialism filter.

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#302

Post by justinzollars »

charcircuit wrote: post #295
ramoz wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering if these models would perform in such a way, given this week's X/twitter storm over Gemini generated images. E.g. https://x.com/debarghya_das/status/1759786243519615169?s=20 https://x.com/MiceynComplex/status/1759833997688107301?s=20 https://x.com/AravSrinivas/status/1759826471655452984?s=20

Those are most likely due to the system prompt which tries to reduce bias (but ends introducing bias in the opposite direction for some prompts as you can see) so I wouldn't expect to see that happen with an open model where you can control the entire system prompt

Imagine the meetings.

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#303

Post by lordswork »

CaffeinatedDev wrote: post #267
lordswork wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any truth behind this claim that folks who worked on Gemma have left Google? https://x.com/yar_vol/status/1760314018575634842

Them: here to answer questions Question Them: :O

To be fair, I think they are in London, so I assume they have winded down for the day. Will probably have to wait ~12-18 hours for a response.

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#304

Post by audessuscest »

graphe wrote: post #250
audessuscest wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this model also thinks german were black 200 years ago ? Or is afraid to answer basic stuff ? because if this is the case no one will care about that model.

I disagree, coding and RAG performance is all that matters to me. I'm not using an LLM to learn basic facts I already know.

we're at basic knowledge level, if your RAG imply some of it, you can get bad result too. Anyway, would you use a model who makes this nonsense response or one that doesn't? I know which one I will prefer for sure...

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#305

Post by castlecrasher2 »

robbiep wrote: post #282
robswc wrote: post #257

I personally can't take any models from google seriously. I was asking it about the Japanese Heian period and it told me such nonsensical information you would have thought it was a joke or parody. Some highlights were "Native American women warriors rode across the grassy plains of Japan, carrying Yumi" and "A diverse group of warriors, including a woman of European descent wielding a katana, stand together in camar…

I find myself shocked that people ask questions of the world from these models, as though pulping every text and its component words relationships and deriving statistical relationships between them should reliably deliver useful information. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve used LLMs and been amazed by their output, but the p-zombie statistical model has no idea what it is saying back to you and the idea that we should trus…

People try it to see if they can trust it. The answer is "no" for sure, but it's not surprising to see it happen repeatedly especially as vendors release so-called improved models.

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#306

Post by 7moritz7 »

robswc wrote: post #257

I personally can't take any models from google seriously. I was asking it about the Japanese Heian period and it told me such nonsensical information you would have thought it was a joke or parody. Some highlights were "Native American women warriors rode across the grassy plains of Japan, carrying Yumi" and "A diverse group of warriors, including a woman of European descent wielding a katana, stand together in camar…

I also saw someone prompt it for "German couple in the 1800s" and, while I'm not trying to paint Germany as ethnically homogenous, 3 out of the 4 images only included Black, Asian or Indigenous people. Which, especially for the 19th century with very few travel options, seems like a super weird choice. They are definitely heavily altering prompts.

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#307

Post by realprimoh »

robswc wrote: post #257

I personally can't take any models from google seriously. I was asking it about the Japanese Heian period and it told me such nonsensical information you would have thought it was a joke or parody. Some highlights were "Native American women warriors rode across the grassy plains of Japan, carrying Yumi" and "A diverse group of warriors, including a woman of European descent wielding a katana, stand together in camar…

Do you have a link? I get no such outputs. I just tried asking about the Heian period and went ahead and verified all the information, and nothing was wrong. Lots of info on the Fujiwara clan at the time.

Curious to see a link.

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#308

Post by verticalscaler »

justinzollars wrote: post #302
charcircuit wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are most likely due to the system prompt which tries to reduce bias (but ends introducing bias in the opposite direction for some prompts as you can see) so I wouldn't expect to see that happen with an open model where you can control the entire system prompt

Imagine the meetings.

Well we can just ask Gemma to generate images of the meetings, no need to imagine. ;)

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#309

Post by kjqgqkejbfefn »

robswc wrote: post #287
verticalscaler wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are being biased and closed minded and overly critical. Here are some wonderful examples of it generating images of historical figures: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1760187341468270686 This will lead to a better educated more fair populace and better future for all.

Comical. I don't think parody could do better. I'm going to assume given today's political climate, it doesn't do the reverse? i.e. generate a Scandinavian if you ask for famous African kings

>Ask Google Gemini to “make an image of a viking” and you’ll get black vikings. But it doesn’t work both ways. It has an explanation when challenged: “white Zulu warriors” would erase “the true historical identity” of black people.

https://twitter.com/ThuglasMac/status/1760287880054759594

Re: Gemma: New Open Models

#310

Post by bbor »

robswc wrote: post #257

I personally can't take any models from google seriously. I was asking it about the Japanese Heian period and it told me such nonsensical information you would have thought it was a joke or parody. Some highlights were "Native American women warriors rode across the grassy plains of Japan, carrying Yumi" and "A diverse group of warriors, including a woman of European descent wielding a katana, stand together in camar…

Tbf they’re not optimizing for information recall or “inaccuracy” reduction, they’re optimizing for intuitive understanding of human linguistic structures. Now the “why does a search company’s AI have terrible RAG” question is a separate one, and one best answered by a simple look into how Google organizes its work.

In my first day there as an entry-level dev (after about 8 weeks of onboarding and waiting for access), I was told that I should find stuff to work on and propose it to my boss. That sounds amazing at first, but when you think about a whole company organized like that…

EDIT: To illustrate my point on knowledge recall: how would they train a model to know about sexism in feudal Japan? Like, what would the metric be? I think we’re looking at one of the first steam engines and complaining that it can’t power a plane yet…

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