Insecure people should be banned, not security tools like firearms.
Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
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Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#12Or, enforce existing laws against theft ... "Ban insecure vehicles" is chasing the technology of locks; there's always another circumvention.
Companies that put out egregiously vulnerable vehicles should be held liable, though.
We'll end up banning windows at this rate, they're an egregious vulnerability in cars and buildings alike. American cities, soft on crime, can't stop thieves from breaking windows so maybe they'll go after car manufacturers and construction firms instead. Going after companies instead of criminals is more aligned with their left-wing sensibilities, I think that's what this is really about.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Companies that put out egregiously vulnerable vehicles should be held liable, though.
Insurance companies should reflect unlock vulnerability of a car model in its premiums. That still leaves the problem that few people look at insurance premium when choosing what car to buy. What would help is a widely used certification system kept up-to-date by certification authorities in cooperation with insurance companies, similarly to what we have in place for a car model's fuel consumption.
Crashes are such an outsized component of insurance coverage compared to theft that this would not be a substantial motivation for manufacturers.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#14Or, enforce existing laws against theft ... "Ban insecure vehicles" is chasing the technology of locks; there's always another circumvention.
Companies that put out egregiously vulnerable vehicles should be held liable, though.
In a bunch of scenarios (mining, military, boats, planes) the vehicles explicitly don't have locks or ignition keys, you press a button and it starts up, you're good to go - should the manufacturer be liable if one gets stolen?
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#15It seems like the most straightforward path here is to ban auto thefts all together.
Yeah! If we make it illegal, then people will stop breaking the laws. That is how it works, right?
Maybe we could try enforcing those laws with no mercy given to the "wayward teens who don't know any better" (they do.)
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#16Or, enforce existing laws against theft ... "Ban insecure vehicles" is chasing the technology of locks; there's always another circumvention.
This is true in absolute terms but over simplified because it glosses over the differences in scale. We require cars to have seatbelts because even though people still die in crashes, it’s a statistically certainty that many fewer die when seatbelts are used.
Setting minimum standards is a critical function of governments in maintaining healthy markets because it prevents cheating from being cost effective. If you make a safety feature optional, you will have some fraction of people say that they don’t need it and then cost society money when it turns out they were wrong. In the case of poor locks, even if much of the cost is paid by the owners’ insurance there’s still a lot of expense from the extra police and court costs, and stolen cars are often used to support other crimes.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#17Security flaws are not born equal. I think there is supposed to be a clear distinction between flaws inherent in technology -- since you only know what you know nobody should be expected to develop impenetrable digital fortresses since that doesn't exist and would actually be harmful for the consumer -- and those flaws born out of neglect. The latter should be specified and treated accordingly, because it isn't a valid excuse that technology can't be 100% secure that the industry should accept poor standards.
Also, Flipper Zero can be made DIY, so I don't know if I get it, but the law will be DOA, and actually work against the democatization and awareness of such flaws by the public.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#18Someone once stole my grandfather's car with a screwdriver. The ignition switch was broken off (probably with a hammer), and the starter could be actuated with the screwdriver. I don't remember how long he drove it that way.
Banning the tech is a bandaid to deeper problems. It's also great advertising that these tools are effective.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Companies that put out egregiously vulnerable vehicles should be held liable, though.
Insurance companies should reflect unlock vulnerability of a car model in its premiums. That still leaves the problem that few people look at insurance premium when choosing what car to buy. What would help is a widely used certification system kept up-to-date by certification authorities in cooperation with insurance companies, similarly to what we have in place for a car model's fuel consumption.
This penalizes unaware pre-existing car owners. Not only they got a crappy car, they now have to pay more for it - all because the vendor was sloppy. Doesn’t seem fair to me.
The responsible party should be the automaker that built or installed the security system, not the person who was sold a lie.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Companies that put out egregiously vulnerable vehicles should be held liable, though.
In a bunch of scenarios (mining, military, boats, planes) the vehicles explicitly don't have locks or ignition keys, you press a button and it starts up, you're good to go - should the manufacturer be liable if one gets stolen?
US military vehicles might have a cable that locks to the steering wheel. So if you try to drive it, you can't steer well. But if not setup properly, it can be steered just fine.