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What is going on in Argentina?

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Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#101

Post by [deleted] »

luzojeda wrote: post #24
kingofthehill98 wrote: post #8

They elected a freakin' maniac and they're gonna pay a heavy price for that. In Brazil we have a saying "pior que tá não fica", which translates to something like "it cannot get worse than this". Belive me when I say this: it can (and probably will) get worse. It can (and probably will) get SO MUCH worse. We tasted this poison with 4 years of Bolsonaro trying to get away from the establishment. What did we get in ret…

The alternative was the economy minister largely responsible of how we got to where we are now. Minister of a president who basically said "you know what I'm out" in 2022 and basically gave the government to said minister.

[deleted]

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#102

Post by slibhb »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #84
robertlagrant wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that extreme of a perspective. I'm surprised that the perspective he's speaking against, which when implemented reliably causes citizen impoverishment and death should be spoken about more in those terms, I think.

Exactly! We are driving our future off a cliff by allowing collectivism to return over libertarianism. For example his perspective would be very consistent with the perspectives of the founding fathers of the United States. The Founding Fathers would have widely agreed with the speech’s support for free-market capitalism and its critique of collectivism, socialism, and excessive state intervention. Advocating princip…

That whole debate wouldn't have made sense to the founding fathers. Yes they were liberals, but "capitalism" wasn't coined until the 19th century.

Milei is quite extreme when he claims that markets can't fail. He's trying to move Argentina in the right direction. I would have voted for him. But that's an extreme claim and is rejected by most economists.

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#103

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

epolanski wrote: post #37
ricotico060 wrote: post #4

Argentina has been like this for a very long time. I studied abroad there in 2019 and it was exactly the same. I believe one of the reasons Brian Armstrong started Coinbase was because he saw how devastating inflation was to Argentina’s economy. Argentina was at one point a top 20 country in the world wealth wise and has obviously gone very down hill. It’s too bad, a lot of talented tech workers there.

Inflation is a symptom, not the cause. Not sure how Argentinians are supposed to do better using cryptocurrencies.

They'd be better off holding literally any _other_ currency. US dollars are hard to get in large quantities, and you'd be stuck holding a lot of cash. Bitcoin (or any crypto currency, BTC isn't unique here) is just easier to buy and hold as a hedge against inflation

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#104

Post by Wytwwww »

froblesmartin wrote: post #91
epolanski wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is a symptom, not the cause. Not sure how Argentinians are supposed to do better using cryptocurrencies.

Well, at least you can save and not be in the need to spend your money soon, as it then devalues quickly, which helps to stop inflation :D They could just search € or USD, which they do :D But the government used to have a cap of 200$ per person and month to exchange (not sure if that still happens now with Milei)

On the whole income be significantly lower because the state couldn't afford to pay them as much (or at all) anymore.

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#105

Post by thworp »

steve_rambo wrote: post #65
kingofthehill98 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not give libertarianism a shot? Because it's capitalism on steroids? Are you not aware of the world we're living in? Every major forest destroyed, countless species exctinct, climate change reaching point of no return, etc. We urgently need to slow down, not speed up.

The most developed countries should show us an example then. I am not Argentinian or from South America at all, but we have the same problems. As long as an average American keeps their consumption levels at more than 10× of ours, I am not listening to what they think we should or shouldn't do. Same for other poor countries, I guess.

That's the spirit. There really is no other way than development. If we try to go back to 19th-century resource consumption and CO2 emissions we also need 19th-century population numbers. If the "degrowth" (a euphemism for poverty and societal collapse) movement got absolute power that will be precisely the result, intentional or not.

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#106

Post by vbezhenar »

verticalscaler wrote: post #5

“To give you have an idea, within the first 2 days in Argentina, I dealt with over five different rates. A restaurant actually offered me the proper blue rate (1100) to pay for the bill, whereas one cueva (informal exchange house) offered me 1050 and another 1070. The kiosk where I bought a SIM card from had it at 1060, and Uber, who did the currency conversion themselves rather than leaving it up to my credit card,…

What's wrong with that? In my country you'll get all the kinds of rates when trying to exchange your dollars. They'll probably be within few % of each other, but that's the market. Every exchange and every bank sets their own rates.

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#107

Post by 7thaccount »

epolanski wrote: post #37
ricotico060 wrote: post #4

Argentina has been like this for a very long time. I studied abroad there in 2019 and it was exactly the same. I believe one of the reasons Brian Armstrong started Coinbase was because he saw how devastating inflation was to Argentina’s economy. Argentina was at one point a top 20 country in the world wealth wise and has obviously gone very down hill. It’s too bad, a lot of talented tech workers there.

Inflation is a symptom, not the cause. Not sure how Argentinians are supposed to do better using cryptocurrencies.

There is no federal agency or corporation that can inflate Bitcoin like Argentina's central bank has been doing. This is the major cause of inflation.

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#108

Post by swarnie »

javcasas wrote: post #78
swarnie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've tested many different ideologies and organisational structures just in the last few hundred years. Currently we have a successful but pretty crappy form of capitalism. Some countries have experimented with Communism, fascism, oligarchy (ism)?), feudalism ect ect. Why not give libertarianism a shot?

Do you know why the USA is the richest country in the world while being full of homeless, or has the strongest army in the world while having the shittiest healthcare of all developed countries? Because liberalism, I/E shrink the state so that ~the corporations can rule~ the invisible hand of the market can fix everything. Even Adam Smith recognised that you need a state to limit the power of the big actors in the in…

> Do you know why the USA is the richest country in the world while being full of homeless, or has the strongest army in the world while having the shittiest healthcare of all developed countries?

Yes, its in the post you're replying too. The USA run an oligarchy system where by the vast majority of money, power and influenced and controlled by an impossibly small interconnected group.

But its ok because every four years the peasants get to chooses which billionaire is the least worse and cast their vote.

What does anything in my post have to do with liberalism?

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#109

Post by notahacker »

robertlagrant wrote: post #6
diggan wrote: post #2

I submitted a transcript from Javier Milei's address at the 54th annual meeting of the World Economic Forum, which I think explains a bit about what is happening, and what is about to happen, from the eyes of the newly elected president who has pretty strong and "out of the ordinary" opinions and ideas. It got some upvotes, but sadly no discussions at all. Highly relevant when discussing Argentina at the moment thoug…

I don't think it's that extreme of a perspective. I'm surprised that the perspective he's speaking against, which when implemented reliably causes citizen impoverishment and death should be spoken about more in those terms, I think.

Perhaps, if you have never been to the West - the object of Milei's criticism - it is possible to believe that it is a world where people are impoverished and dying through evil collectivists providing welfare states. For everyone else, that's a perspective as extreme as his chainsaw stunts.

Milei's bark is likely to prove more extreme than his bite, of course. He's already pointedly not abolishing the central bank and quietly mending relations with China.

Re: What is going on in Argentina?

#110

Post by diggan »

gausswho wrote: post #83
diggan wrote: post #2

I submitted a transcript from Javier Milei's address at the 54th annual meeting of the World Economic Forum, which I think explains a bit about what is happening, and what is about to happen, from the eyes of the newly elected president who has pretty strong and "out of the ordinary" opinions and ideas. It got some upvotes, but sadly no discussions at all. Highly relevant when discussing Argentina at the moment thoug…

This speech has no legs to stand on. His key premise conflates the industrial revolution with a special definition of capitalism. Which for his ideology has perfect price discovery and a world where no large corporations collude with other. His main course is your usual slab of blaming socialism, sprinkled with side blame at feminists and environmentalists. I don't see anything worth reading here. It is deceptive wit…

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Milei, I think my understand of the space and the country is too low to be able to do so.

But I disagree with "I don't see anything worth reading here", even if it's unhinged and you fundamentally disagree with their point of view.

He is the democratically elected president of a country in despair, and trying to understand what will happen to the country requires understanding the motivations behind the actions, which are laid bare in his speech, no matter how factual his points are.

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