What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers • Hacker News Board

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#61

Post by photoGrant » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 6:30 AM UTC

csnover wrote: post #55

skepticATX wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to treat humans and machines the same. Even if it were true that these models learn exactly like humans (which is patently false), we can still differentiate between the two. Society is built by and for humans. If we want to empower humans over machines, that seems perfectly acceptable.

> Society is built by and for humans. These machines are also built by and for humans. > If we want to empower humans over machines, that seems perfectly acceptable. But that’s not what’s happening here. This is a faction of humans fighting to maintain their power and control over how the rest of humanity is allowed to produce artistic works. Creatives who fight against generative AI are trying to empower themselves…

Once again people think they can productivity their way to results as if it's a quantifiable and profitable resource. Culture, Creativity and Art are HUMAN expression of a HUMAN condition. To generate it with a computer means to create 'content' for the sake of profit. Not ART for the sake of expression. At the start of every argument reducing any human output to nothing more than a repeatable and reducible resource is the same arrogant fallacy thinking that, and anything we create just will appear in a vacuum. The worlds people benefit from standing on each others shoulders. This reduces that to the company with the biggest pockets. Otherwise, why secrets?

Everything you argue facilitates the reach of human expression. This pilfers and silences it. This plagiarism machine cannot even deal with 'current stimuli' in ANY way what so ever so it cannot express anything. It can only remember what you've told it, and it can barely do that successfully. It can't hold a fact for 2 messages. It cannot feel, it cannot predict, it cannot agree or disagree. It outputs based on master's filter and its expression based on financial agenda.

To think artists want to retain control over their own voice and ideas, and not have a company steal the aesthetics of it and sell its skeleton at a discount, and not realise the hypocrisy of trying to shift the power away from the individual to a private single for profit company is just... Beautifully poetic in its own right.

> the invention of the phonograph decimated live musicians

What history have you been smoking? The invention of a technology that could mechanically reproduce the message of an artist only sought to spread awareness and increase musical access and interest. It cannot replicate the aura of art which is why people to this day squeeze into expensive live shows. You argue the phonograph has completely cleaned live music off the table. It hasn't. It facilitated its growth.

You can replicate the art, but you can't create the artist. If ever I hear a balanced argument from the other side that includes the word 'aura' I'll have known they didn't just spend half a night researching these matters and deciding it's easier to remain ignorant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_of_Art_in_the_Age_of_...

"in the age of mechanical reproduction and the absence of traditional and ritualistic value, the production of art would be inherently based upon the praxis of politics."

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#62

Post by artninja1988 » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 6:40 AM UTC

photoGrant wrote: post #58

xscott wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're expressing humanity with your flowery (or sarcastic) language to call me ignorant, uncaring, and dehumanizing. I want to say that's hypocritical, but it really isn't. You are a pretty good reflection of humanity, and a fine example of why I don't care that some people will have to move on to survive. It's not like they (or you) were all that nice in the first place.

Your beliefs and words are stripping me of my talents, livelihood, journey, meaning, finances and goals and you're upset that I call it ignorant, uncaring and dehumanizing. Hypocritical or not, these are not my attempts at creatively insulting you. They're the smallest of reality checks you need and I have absolutely no delusion to believe you'll ever think otherwise. How YOU became a victim in this discussion lends…

>Your beliefs and words are stripping me of my talents, livelihood, journey, meaning, finances and goals

There it is. If it wasn't obvious, all your posts are really just you being upset about tech advancements threatening your job. You could have just said that instead of the nonsensical posts about ai weapons somehow being rated to diffusion models etc. My advice: move on and adapt like the rest of us

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#63

Post by xscott » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 6:41 AM UTC

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #25

xscott wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you're saying. Am I the uncaring ignorant one? It seems unlikely that you're really referring to yourself there, and maybe you're using a rhetorical trick to try and skirt HN's policy about being civil to each other.

Perhaps it's a commentary on humans drawing arbitrary thresholds to excuse themselves from caring about other humans who don't meet them?

What threshold?

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#64

Post by photoGrant » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 6:45 AM UTC

xscott wrote: post #59

photoGrant wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is 'we' in your arguments. Master? And why do you think laws exist? It's to protect the rich from being burned at the stake by reality. Societal agreements go both ways. You think it's to feign appeasement to the little piggie complaints and get them back to growing for your market day? You continue to dehumanise 'them' -- your neighbour into nothing more than an idiot who takes from your bottom line. Humans aren…

I'm going to ignore everything that sounds too weird to address. Philosophy major? Drinking on a Tuesday? As for laws, we're almost in agreement. People want to argue about rights, but it seems to me the rules are a lot more about control. I could ramble on quite a bit about corruption at every level from local police to federal politicians. ... to copyright enforcement. However, most of the rules were made before th…

This is exhausting. Just read a history book. Yes, power started with families. Then big families - kings and queens and y'know, we slowly but surely woke up to being a kinder humanity not a more brutal one. You'd have thought.

Art major. I don't drink. I debate hard ideas.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#65

Post by tarr11 » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 6:51 AM UTC

Software developers don’t seem to care that their code is used to train LLMs. It seems most programmers have embraced it as a tool to make themselves more efficient, even if that means some jobs may get automated away.

I am not really sure why the reception is so different with “creatives”.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#66

Post by photoGrant » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 7:01 AM UTC

tarr11 wrote: post #65

Software developers don’t seem to care that their code is used to train LLMs. It seems most programmers have embraced it as a tool to make themselves more efficient, even if that means some jobs may get automated away. I am not really sure why the reception is so different with “creatives”.

One is an expression of all through self, another is a skill to a solution. One is given value by society's response, the other by a companies incentives.

When you take an artists desire to speak to the world through self expression, and believe it's equivalent to building software you're forgetting that one of them is already extremely well compensated, the other is not aligned with those incentives.

But to be extremely well compensated, and then try to rob artists of their livelihoods for profit and convenience -- yes, folks are going to think this argument isn't quite as balanced as you're painting it.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#67

Post by xscott » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 7:05 AM UTC

photoGrant wrote: post #64

xscott wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to ignore everything that sounds too weird to address. Philosophy major? Drinking on a Tuesday? As for laws, we're almost in agreement. People want to argue about rights, but it seems to me the rules are a lot more about control. I could ramble on quite a bit about corruption at every level from local police to federal politicians. ... to copyright enforcement. However, most of the rules were made before th…

This is exhausting. Just read a history book. Yes, power started with families. Then big families - kings and queens and y'know, we slowly but surely woke up to being a kinder humanity not a more brutal one. You'd have thought. Art major. I don't drink. I debate hard ideas.

Well, since we agree the laws aren't about right or wrong, I guess you can appeal your case to the rich.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#68

Post by photoGrant » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 7:09 AM UTC

xscott wrote: post #67

photoGrant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exhausting. Just read a history book. Yes, power started with families. Then big families - kings and queens and y'know, we slowly but surely woke up to being a kinder humanity not a more brutal one. You'd have thought. Art major. I don't drink. I debate hard ideas.

Well, since we agree the laws aren't about right or wrong, I guess you can appeal your case to the rich.

Yes. Master.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#69

Post by esafak » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 7:17 AM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #10

fatherzine wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the attitude of those that do it: "what are you going to do about it?". escalatory power games, not an ounce of caring for your fellow man, barely a veneer of. we have entered very dark waters. unclear where the exit is.

Preventing or slowing the development of AI is just a startling contempt for human life. Every day millions of people die unnecessarily. Willingness to let that happen because you think your family (or, most likely, a giant corporation) deserves to be paid for a century after you die is sheer selfishness and ignorance.

That's the worst argument I've ever heard. None of the sentences are connected.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#70

Post by isodev » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 7:58 AM UTC

esafak wrote: post #69

scarmig wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventing or slowing the development of AI is just a startling contempt for human life. Every day millions of people die unnecessarily. Willingness to let that happen because you think your family (or, most likely, a giant corporation) deserves to be paid for a century after you die is sheer selfishness and ignorance.

That's the worst argument I've ever heard. None of the sentences are connected.

Perhaps it was written by an AI :)... One can never be certain these days.