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What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

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Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#21

Post by skepticATX »

xscott wrote: post #15

I'll care a little more about the creatives' arguments when they start paying royalties to every drawing, painting, illustration, tv show, or movie they've ever seen. Until then, it's just a cash grab. No individual is all that creative, and anyone accomplished is standing on the shoulders of past giants to get there. The "what will we do for jobs argument?!?" would've applied to stage actors when movies came out a c…

We don't have to treat humans and machines the same.

Even if it were true that these models learn exactly like humans (which is patently false), we can still differentiate between the two.

Society is built by and for humans. If we want to empower humans over machines, that seems perfectly acceptable.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#22

Post by Throwaway1746 »

xscott wrote: post #15

I'll care a little more about the creatives' arguments when they start paying royalties to every drawing, painting, illustration, tv show, or movie they've ever seen. Until then, it's just a cash grab. No individual is all that creative, and anyone accomplished is standing on the shoulders of past giants to get there. The "what will we do for jobs argument?!?" would've applied to stage actors when movies came out a c…

[flagged]

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#23

Post by xscott »

photoGrant wrote: post #20
xscott wrote: post #15

I'll care a little more about the creatives' arguments when they start paying royalties to every drawing, painting, illustration, tv show, or movie they've ever seen. Until then, it's just a cash grab. No individual is all that creative, and anyone accomplished is standing on the shoulders of past giants to get there. The "what will we do for jobs argument?!?" would've applied to stage actors when movies came out a c…

I'll start caring about my fellow humans rights when I see each and everyone one of their tax returns. Until then my assumptions will appease my ability to remain ignorant.

I don't understand what you're saying. Am I the uncaring ignorant one? It seems unlikely that you're really referring to yourself there, and maybe you're using a rhetorical trick to try and skirt HN's policy about being civil to each other.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#24

Post by photoGrant »

xscott wrote: post #23
photoGrant wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll start caring about my fellow humans rights when I see each and everyone one of their tax returns. Until then my assumptions will appease my ability to remain ignorant.

I don't understand what you're saying. Am I the uncaring ignorant one? It seems unlikely that you're really referring to yourself there, and maybe you're using a rhetorical trick to try and skirt HN's policy about being civil to each other.

My recommendation, civil or otherwise is to at least feign a moment of empathy and understanding for your fellow man in order to balance an otherwise repeat cliche that fundamentally argues for self. An inability to empathise first stops any ability to listen to, or accept alternative opinions to your own.

I'm not sure what's more insulting overall, my sarcasm or your immediate jump to insult any artist based on the fact they're outraged about the financial fall out of this situation and not take them on the merit of every other argument included. Philosophical, moral and otherwise. It's fingers in ears and it's assuming the only thing artists care about is the money leaving their pocket.

We can think a little beyond that cave. It's inclusion in the argument is because it is the guiding star for the greedy to nullify the realities. Visual AI has revealed the trickster.

> No individual is all that creative

It's nice to meet you too. I promise, you underestimate your neighbours.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#25

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

xscott wrote: post #23
photoGrant wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll start caring about my fellow humans rights when I see each and everyone one of their tax returns. Until then my assumptions will appease my ability to remain ignorant.

I don't understand what you're saying. Am I the uncaring ignorant one? It seems unlikely that you're really referring to yourself there, and maybe you're using a rhetorical trick to try and skirt HN's policy about being civil to each other.

Perhaps it's a commentary on humans drawing arbitrary thresholds to excuse themselves from caring about other humans who don't meet them?

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#26

Post by norir »

xscott wrote: post #15

I'll care a little more about the creatives' arguments when they start paying royalties to every drawing, painting, illustration, tv show, or movie they've ever seen. Until then, it's just a cash grab. No individual is all that creative, and anyone accomplished is standing on the shoulders of past giants to get there. The "what will we do for jobs argument?!?" would've applied to stage actors when movies came out a c…

> No individual is all that creative, and anyone accomplished is standing on the shoulders of past giants to get there.

Are you seriously going to argue that, say, Bach or Shakespeare were not all that creative?

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#27

Post by gfodor »

skepticATX wrote: post #21
xscott wrote: post #15

I'll care a little more about the creatives' arguments when they start paying royalties to every drawing, painting, illustration, tv show, or movie they've ever seen. Until then, it's just a cash grab. No individual is all that creative, and anyone accomplished is standing on the shoulders of past giants to get there. The "what will we do for jobs argument?!?" would've applied to stage actors when movies came out a c…

We don't have to treat humans and machines the same. Even if it were true that these models learn exactly like humans (which is patently false), we can still differentiate between the two. Society is built by and for humans. If we want to empower humans over machines, that seems perfectly acceptable.

This will be a major point of contention if machine learning continues to go the way it’s going.

In the future if the Turing test is fully passed I think morality will boil down to preferring humans if and only if it’s a situation of competing scarcities.

In the case of “showing pictures to computer people”, showing pictures to a computer doesn’t prevent you from showing it to a human so this framework imply no moral justification for a human preference.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#28

Post by tapoxi »

Throwaway1746 wrote: post #16
ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #12

Imagine the music progression from blues->black metal if every band had copyright to their style. This critique assumes the AI is ingesting material and not reproducing it 1:1

[flagged]

Nah it's different because it's different. A machine is copying the entire contents of the copywritten work to "learn" from it. Humans don't.

I also don't get the cheerleading here. You aren't getting free access to this tech. Cheap access maybe, for now, but the only outcome is to suppress labor and maximize profit, because that's what the market demands.

What do we tell people in an unaffordable world dealing with the impacts of climate change when their jobs are gone? That they can't be a software engineer, or an artist, or an animator because we've taken that work - and money - and handed it to a chosen few when using their own labor to bootstrap it? This is how riots happen.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#29

Post by cageface »

xscott wrote: post #15

I'll care a little more about the creatives' arguments when they start paying royalties to every drawing, painting, illustration, tv show, or movie they've ever seen. Until then, it's just a cash grab. No individual is all that creative, and anyone accomplished is standing on the shoulders of past giants to get there. The "what will we do for jobs argument?!?" would've applied to stage actors when movies came out a c…

The world keeps getting better as technology advances, and people will adapt to the new changes.

That's making the very large assumption that there are no qualitative differences among our various leaps in technology. It's not hard to make the argument that AI is a different and larger and more disruptive leap than the invention of the tractor.

This is a complex issue that people on both sides of the argument tend to oversimplify. Figuring out how we should regulate and integrate this new technology is going to take time and a lot of back and forth.

Re: What Was Sora Trained On? Creatives Demand Answers

#30

Post by xscott »

photoGrant wrote: post #24
xscott wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you're saying. Am I the uncaring ignorant one? It seems unlikely that you're really referring to yourself there, and maybe you're using a rhetorical trick to try and skirt HN's policy about being civil to each other.

My recommendation, civil or otherwise is to at least feign a moment of empathy and understanding for your fellow man in order to balance an otherwise repeat cliche that fundamentally argues for self. An inability to empathise first stops any ability to listen to, or accept alternative opinions to your own. I'm not sure what's more insulting overall, my sarcasm or your immediate jump to insult any artist based on the…

Ok, now that you've clarified: My take was correct, right? Your first instinct was to attack my character instead of discussing the topic, and you knew you had to be sneaky about it to not obviously break the rules.

Your empathy isn't showing so clearly, and honestly I have more friendly discussions with ChatGPT than I am having with you.

As for what artists care about - nobody is taking away their cameras or brushes. They can keep creating all they want. It really seems like it's about money to me.

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