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We're moving to a post-entertainment society

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Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#21

Post by MivLives »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #9
npunt wrote: post #4

Excellent framing: Dopamine beats entertainment. Just see people with their smartphones out when they’re ‘watching’ a Netflix show. Or the unbundling of funny, often context-less moments from that show into bite sized pieces of dopamine, rebundled together on your social media platform of choice (everything in tech is either bundling or unbundling). It’s all drugs at this point. The emperor is naked.

> people with their smartphones out when they’re ‘watching’ a Netflix show I noticed myself doing this years ago and when I really reflected on it, I felt very unsettled by what was happening to me. And meanwhile most of us have people (partner, kids, friends) you'll have (hopefully) a lifetime with, and pursuing some kind of deeper connection with them instead in those moments actually would result in some kind of m…

I switched to movies only because I realized that TV was encouraging this behavior. It's a lot easier to watch television without looking at it. It's easier for me to consciously put down my phone for 90 to 180 minutes then it is for me to do so for however long I get stuck in a television binge.

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#22

Post by badpun »

ryandrake wrote: post #15
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people with their smartphones out when they’re ‘watching’ a Netflix show I noticed myself doing this years ago and when I really reflected on it, I felt very unsettled by what was happening to me. And meanwhile most of us have people (partner, kids, friends) you'll have (hopefully) a lifetime with, and pursuing some kind of deeper connection with them instead in those moments actually would result in some kind of m…

I've stopped hosting 'movie nights' for friends and family because nobody can stay off their phones for more than 5 minutes. By the time the opening credits roll, everyone in the room is scrolling whatever it is they scroll. What's the point in even having a movie on?

Holy cow, is that for real? I don't think I know a single person like that. How old were the guests?

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#23

Post by ryandrake »

nyokodo wrote: post #17
ryandrake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped hosting 'movie nights' for friends and family because nobody can stay off their phones for more than 5 minutes. By the time the opening credits roll, everyone in the room is scrolling whatever it is they scroll. What's the point in even having a movie on?

> nobody can stay off their phones for more than 5 minutes Host something more interactive like board games, or have a faraday cage ready at the entrance for the phones and everyone has agreed to put them in there, or both! We’re all addicted and suffocated by our devices so we have to start carving out air pockets somewhere.

One thing that survived is Poker Night. Seems that at least when there's money at stake (even a small amount) people pay attention!

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#24

Post by synthpop »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #20

TikTok is distraction, TV is entertainment? What is the difference here?

My read is that TV (or 'entertainment' as we've come to know it since the cultural explosion of television) still requires artists and/or professionals with some form of skills/vision in order to be made, but is ultimately produced by and for the enrichment of corporate giants at the end of the day. Under that system, works can still potentially be made which satisfy the interests of the artist, the corporation, and the consumer (and everywhere in between). The transition to the distraction economy (e.g., TikTok but more generally 'content' as we've come to know in the last decade or so) seeks to remove the pesky artists and professionals from the equation, and tighten the corporations' collective grip around the consumers' attention to the point that the constant use of their product is less of a choice, but more of a compulsion (or as the author states more plainly, addiction) to which there is little alternative thanks to the current landscape of culture at large essentially now being contained within a handful of apps.

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#25

Post by theragra »

This is a funny speculation, but dopamine role is scientifically pretty complicated and not as simple as such articles and books portray. Moreover, evidence is really lacking about simple statements like "screens are bad" and "addiction to tiktok because of dopamine" yada yada. Check with any serious neuroscientist, and most would not agree to this overly simplistic view.

The book "dopamine nation" is myth-making enterprise, for example, see https://sluggish.substack.com/p/the-myth-making-of-dopamine-...

Moreover, there are many things that counter such arguments. Tik-tok length grows, and some are 10 minutes. There is a lot of edutainment content on tiktok. About physics, astronomy, history etc.

And overall it is pretty weird author making such arguments on the long-read platform that is rapidly growing in popularity.

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#26

Post by steve_adams_86 »

ryandrake wrote: post #15
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people with their smartphones out when they’re ‘watching’ a Netflix show I noticed myself doing this years ago and when I really reflected on it, I felt very unsettled by what was happening to me. And meanwhile most of us have people (partner, kids, friends) you'll have (hopefully) a lifetime with, and pursuing some kind of deeper connection with them instead in those moments actually would result in some kind of m…

I've stopped hosting 'movie nights' for friends and family because nobody can stay off their phones for more than 5 minutes. By the time the opening credits roll, everyone in the room is scrolling whatever it is they scroll. What's the point in even having a movie on?

For what it's worth, my household has some strict rules—even for guests—about leaving phones at the entrance. My kids aren't allowed phones in their rooms, and we don't use phones in family spaces unless we have an explicit reason to do so. And even then, the phones typically don't leave the general area where we keep them.

I don't warn people as they enter, but if they start using it in the home I'll say something like "hey, I didn't mention it but we keep our phones in this space by our entrance. Do you mind keeping it over there/not using it/whatever while you're here?". Depending on who it is and the context, I'll add that it's for the kids and/or to keep a certain ambiance or ethos for what's going on (like watching a movie together).

It probably sounds extreme. It keeps people from doing what you're describing though. Most people like it, too. Younger people (teenage friends of our kids) tend to find it extremely invasive and unwelcome, which is a bit funny because they don't recognize their insistence to bring things into our home as converse to what we're doing, yet within a space where we should be able to decide. That's fine, though. It's okay not to agree with people. Especially teenagers(1), haha.

You might find some rules or guidance around device use in your home helpful, anyway. Just tell people you don't do that at your place. Keep that stuff at the door, let your home have some sacredness or inviolability (so to speak).

1. I don't mean this is a "teenagers are dumb" thing at all. Where I am they tend to live in settings where they make the decisions about their devices and their usage, and these are both very personal parts of their daily operations and personal property which they strongly dislike being parted with. There are usually both good and bad reasons behind this. But yeah, a lot of kids talk to our kids like we're militant despots trying to oppress a normal way of life, haha. There is a lot of sneaking contraband into our place. I totally get it.

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#27

Post by snikeris »

jonfw wrote: post #13
everforward wrote: post #5

This was an interesting piece. One thing I think was missing is a note about evolution's role. I think many of these traits are evolutionary; they trigger dopamine responses because at some point they were helpful. Sugary foods have calories so you don't starve. Boredom is painful so people invent. Modern society is frankly too good at satisfying these evolutionary cravings. They've become maladaptive by nature of be…

Evolution is way too slow to handle technology. Social media is a problem of the last 30 years or so. Barring a bubonic plague type of event, there is no mechanism for evolution on this short of a timescale

I disagree. People exposed to social media will have worse reproductive outcomes. Fewer, sicker children.

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#28

Post by amadeuspagel »

synthpop wrote: post #24
amadeuspagel wrote: post #20

TikTok is distraction, TV is entertainment? What is the difference here?

My read is that TV (or 'entertainment' as we've come to know it since the cultural explosion of television) still requires artists and/or professionals with some form of skills/vision in order to be made, but is ultimately produced by and for the enrichment of corporate giants at the end of the day. Under that system, works can still potentially be made which satisfy the interests of the artist, the corporation, and…

I don't see how someone who makes funny TikTok videos is less of an artist then someone working on a comedy show for TV.

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#29

Post by solumunus »

badpun wrote: post #22
ryandrake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped hosting 'movie nights' for friends and family because nobody can stay off their phones for more than 5 minutes. By the time the opening credits roll, everyone in the room is scrolling whatever it is they scroll. What's the point in even having a movie on?

Holy cow, is that for real? I don't think I know a single person like that. How old were the guests?

I don’t doubt it, but I also can’t relate at all. There are three software developers, one software consultant and one IT consultant in my close family (so definitely not tech-averse) and we easily spend hours together without aimlessly looking at our phones.

Re: We're moving to a post-entertainment society

#30

Post by gardenhedge »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #26
ryandrake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped hosting 'movie nights' for friends and family because nobody can stay off their phones for more than 5 minutes. By the time the opening credits roll, everyone in the room is scrolling whatever it is they scroll. What's the point in even having a movie on?

For what it's worth, my household has some strict rules—even for guests—about leaving phones at the entrance. My kids aren't allowed phones in their rooms, and we don't use phones in family spaces unless we have an explicit reason to do so. And even then, the phones typically don't leave the general area where we keep them. I don't warn people as they enter, but if they start using it in the home I'll say something l…

Honestly it's just rude to tell guests how to act. Yes ruder than them using their phones in a way you don't approve of.
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