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In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

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Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#331

Post by emseetech »

bluGill wrote: post #322
emseetech wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm assuming this decision was made quite a while ago? Years, maybe even over a decade?

It took a decade to find the data to show that this decision we made 10 years ago was bad - for those entire 10 years we all thought it was good until we we looking at a performance issue and realized the roots case what a decision made in the early days had an unexpected side effect.

Congratulations on your success. Legacy code is never easy to work with, but it's a good problem to have because it means you survived where hardly anyone does.

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#332

Post by phendrenad2 »

zer00eyz wrote: post #10

Early in my career one of the IT guys told me that one of the people on staff was "a technical magpie". I looked at him with a raised eyebrow and he said "He has to grab every shiny piece of tech that shows up and add it to the pile". This is where we are. I can't tell you how many times I have seen projects get done just to pad a PM or developers resume. Just because it was the lastest and greatest hot shit thing to…

I wonder if this effect ultimately advantages Google, and other companies that create their own internal tools rather than using the new shiny buzzword.

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#333

Post by greenie_beans »

cmsefton wrote: post #145
zer00eyz wrote: post #10

Early in my career one of the IT guys told me that one of the people on staff was "a technical magpie". I looked at him with a raised eyebrow and he said "He has to grab every shiny piece of tech that shows up and add it to the pile". This is where we are. I can't tell you how many times I have seen projects get done just to pad a PM or developers resume. Just because it was the lastest and greatest hot shit thing to…

I'm immediately reminded of my favourite Kurt Vonnegut quote: "Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance." I've always felt that the magpie syndrome you describe is because of the desire to build new things, rather than maintain what's there. I watched a repair show recently where a craftsman repaired an old 70s bedside clock. The pride, time and patience…

i'm glad i have "kurt vonnegut" notifications because this was nice to read.

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#334

Post by djur »

mrkeen wrote: post #123
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but I rarely see this work out, even in the short term. It certainly seems like complexity for its own sake, and someone once told me that our system was embarrassingly simple so that's why they introduced a load of complexity. Sigh.

> someone once told me that our system was embarrassingly simple so that's why they introduced a load of complexity. This exceeds my ability to suspend disbelief.

You can't imagine someone saying "look at this system, it's totally basic, programming 101, clown shoes, baby's first web service, probably made by a PHP coder, not enterprise-class at all, we need to put on our big-boy pants, I read some whitepapers from thought leaders at FAANG and we need to implement..."

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#335

Post by mlhpdx »

zer00eyz wrote: post #10

Early in my career one of the IT guys told me that one of the people on staff was "a technical magpie". I looked at him with a raised eyebrow and he said "He has to grab every shiny piece of tech that shows up and add it to the pile". This is where we are. I can't tell you how many times I have seen projects get done just to pad a PM or developers resume. Just because it was the lastest and greatest hot shit thing to…

> Workman like functionality isnt sexy, it wont be the hot bullet point on your resume, it wont get you your next job, but it is dam effective.

When you see opportunities to do such work in a way that delivers something new and valuable, I recommend taking hold of them. I learned this somewhere along the line, but not until I’d missed a few from self-doubt and indulging the inner magpie.

Clear, simple and value focused engineering is _exactly_ what I’m looking for in candidates these days. Focus on the long term, not the short term — just like with investing.

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#336

Post by hoosieree »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #297
Swizec wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, not fun, not rewarding, no intellectual challenge, no career benefit. Why exactly should I want to do it? It does help you get the next job. You’re just pitching it wrong. Instead of “Built boring tech” try “Delivered $5,000,000 return 2 months early”. Watch your inbox blow up. Business leaders don’t care about what you do, they care about results. What you do to get those results is just an unfortunate cost an…

> Instead of “Built boring tech” try “Delivered $5,000,000 return 2 months early”. How do I do that without lying through my teeth? 17 years on the job, I never had the data to even begin estimate that kind of things. It was never my job to know it (I'm a programmer, not an accountant), and it was often actively hidden from me. And how did you do it? How did you get your numbers, and what did you tell recruiters when…

The usual resume advice to quantify everything so each bullet point conveys "number go up" also falls apart when you invent something, create a new revenue stream, new product, etc. The previous value was nil, therefore I improved it by... infinity percent?

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#337

Post by mlhpdx »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #291
JAlexoid wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the boring "I delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil" will win over "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices" At a certain point in your career, you'll realize that the business manager can override any technical hiring manager. Because at the end of the day delivering results is sexier, than bells and whistles in your resume.

> In my experience the boring "I delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil" will win over "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices Good luck having the opportunity to work in a project where you have even the faintest idea how much money your contribution will make or save. I don't know about you, but never in my 17 year career have I had enough information to even at…

Honest question: if you’ve never known the tangible value of your work, how did you decide what to do? It’s an uncomfortable question to ask, but I genuinely don’t understand how that would be possible.

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#338

Post by danmaz74 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #97
zer00eyz wrote: post #10

Early in my career one of the IT guys told me that one of the people on staff was "a technical magpie". I looked at him with a raised eyebrow and he said "He has to grab every shiny piece of tech that shows up and add it to the pile". This is where we are. I can't tell you how many times I have seen projects get done just to pad a PM or developers resume. Just because it was the lastest and greatest hot shit thing to…

> Workman like functionality isnt sexy, it wont be the hot bullet point on your resume, it wont get you your next job, but it is dam effective. So, not fun, not rewarding, no intellectual challenge, no career benefit. Why exactly should I want to do it? This isn't the goddamn United Federation of Planets, nor is the company a church - why exactly should I go above and beyond what I agreed to in exchange for my salary…

> not rewarding, no intellectual challenge

Don't forget that simple isn't easy. I find it very rewarding and intellectually stimulating to solve a problem with a solution which is as simple as possible - but no simpler.

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#339

Post by Spivak »

heyodai wrote: post #319
Spivak wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil The problem is that $100mil is all pixie fairy dust when you're working on a new project. I wish this wasn't true but it works out better for you to implement it as costly and complex as possible, show off how smart you are, then simplify it during a cost cutting initiative (wow they must be so smart to make such an obviously complex system…

> ...while you think you're getting away with something playing this game you're actually doing exactly what the business wants. How so? I would think the business wants to spend as little money as possible.

Nah, they want to bring in as much money as possible, subtle difference. High complexity (tech debt) and high costs (paying for expensive managed services) in service to time-to-ship is actually great. If it turns out that the market they predicted doesn't pan out they find out faster and just shut it down chalk it up to r&d costs for the tax break, and if it's so successful it costs them an arm and a let it's "good problems to have."

Re: In Defense of Simple Architectures (2022)

#340

Post by [deleted] »

mkl95 wrote: post #222
JAlexoid wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the boring "I delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil" will win over "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices" At a certain point in your career, you'll realize that the business manager can override any technical hiring manager. Because at the end of the day delivering results is sexier, than bells and whistles in your resume.

> "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices" Saving a company from political mayhem is a pretty good achievement to have on your resume. It's also impressive because most engineering teams give up early on.

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