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House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

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11–20 of 63 posts

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#11
post #10

I worked for Daniel Alroy the founder of Q1. https://www.peel.dk/Q1/ I have never seen one in real life yet. He told me lot of stories, especially how he got into a fight with Intel. He had set out to prove a point that a cheaper simpler machine can be made.

In his later life he was really into philosophy and understand the orgins of life and innate knowledge. He wrote a short book with his thoughts. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Daniel-Alroy/dp/1544005067 The book has illustrations by @ djbaskin - https://daniellebaskin.com/neuroscience

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#12
post #9

That this 8008 computer from 1972 should have 16KB of RAM sounds unlikely. I haven't been able to find any real info stating this - still, the headline on tomshardware says "16KB". That's very hard to believe. Static RAM of that size would have been extremely expensive at the time, the much much later Altair 8800 didn't get past 4KB without a dynamic RAM board (which was also very unreliable). The Q1/Lite, a Z80-base…

The headline is probably wrong, the article text just says "capable of" 16 kilobyte. I also think it's unlikely it had 16 installed. On the other hand, doesn't the screen look like a flatscreen, not a CRT? So the screen itself was probably very expensive in itself. (Probably plasma screen?)

Edit:

Look at the image and the bank of 3 * 8 socketed chips:

https://www.peel.dk/Q1/img/SN615-03.jpg

If these are the Intel 2102 [1] or something similar, then it would have 3 kilobytes of SRAM.

1: https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Intel_2102

Edit 2: the computer in the picture is another model, ignore me.

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#13
post #6

This might be the first Intel desktop PC, but it's not the first desktop computer. That would be the HP9100A from 1968. I agree more pictures would have been nice. It looks like a cool piece of hardware!

You could also go back to the 1965 Olivetti Programma 101 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programma_101). It had labels and memory cells, and could be programmed in a kind of assembly.

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#14

Some more close-ups of the Q1 etc in this video and pics they've posted (all I could find): https://twitter.com/KingstonUni/status/1757444509577662951 https://twitter.com/KingstonUni/status/1757404905176695186

Weird... It looks the screen is too flat (and shallow) for a CRT. I'd assume it's a panel with LED alphanumeric cells.

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#15
post #2

Random dragons hoarding gold seems to be once again the best failsafe for preserving humanity's accomplishments, said no one ever.

Seems to be how these were preserved thus far.

As someone who collects and restores old computers, I can tell you this is how they are preserved. Museums are only the final resting place of these machines, but, in the meantime, they are preserved by ordinary people in their own collections.

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#16
post #9

That this 8008 computer from 1972 should have 16KB of RAM sounds unlikely. I haven't been able to find any real info stating this - still, the headline on tomshardware says "16KB". That's very hard to believe. Static RAM of that size would have been extremely expensive at the time, the much much later Altair 8800 didn't get past 4KB without a dynamic RAM board (which was also very unreliable). The Q1/Lite, a Z80-base…

maybe a confusion because 16 kilo bits is 2 kilo bytes.

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#17
post #14

Some more close-ups of the Q1 etc in this video and pics they've posted (all I could find): https://twitter.com/KingstonUni/status/1757444509577662951 https://twitter.com/KingstonUni/status/1757404905176695186

Weird... It looks the screen is too flat (and shallow) for a CRT. I'd assume it's a panel with LED alphanumeric cells.

https://www.thebyteattic.com/p/q1.html says it had a "neon-orange plasma display", which would have been pretty advanced for the time.

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#18
post #9

That this 8008 computer from 1972 should have 16KB of RAM sounds unlikely. I haven't been able to find any real info stating this - still, the headline on tomshardware says "16KB". That's very hard to believe. Static RAM of that size would have been extremely expensive at the time, the much much later Altair 8800 didn't get past 4KB without a dynamic RAM board (which was also very unreliable). The Q1/Lite, a Z80-base…

The headline is probably wrong, the article text just says "capable of" 16 kilobyte. I also think it's unlikely it had 16 installed. On the other hand, doesn't the screen look like a flatscreen, not a CRT? So the screen itself was probably very expensive in itself. (Probably plasma screen?) Edit: Look at the image and the bank of 3 * 8 socketed chips: https://www.peel.dk/Q1/img/SN615-03.jpg If these are the Intel 210…

That picture appears to be from a Q1/Lite, which is a different beast (and used 4116 DRAM according to the schematics)

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#19
post #13
post #6

This might be the first Intel desktop PC, but it's not the first desktop computer. That would be the HP9100A from 1968. I agree more pictures would have been nice. It looks like a cool piece of hardware!

You could also go back to the 1965 Olivetti Programma 101 ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programma_101 ). It had labels and memory cells, and could be programmed in a kind of assembly.

and programmable function keys!

Re: House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

#20
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird... It looks the screen is too flat (and shallow) for a CRT. I'd assume it's a panel with LED alphanumeric cells.

https://www.thebyteattic.com/p/q1.html says it had a "neon-orange plasma display", which would have been pretty advanced for the time.

the neon-orange plasma displays invented for the plato system in the late 01960s had an enormous, unique advantage for this kind of thing

they were bistable and switchable! so you could have a 512×512 display which had, in the physical display itself, 262144 bits of memory, equivalent to 32768 bytes. by contrast (heh), a lcd or normal crt fades in a second or two if you don't redraw it, which means you need a separate memory somewhere to hold the data to redraw, memory you have to run through many times a second in order to generate a steady display

the tektronix 4010 and 4014 graphics terminals (derived from the tektronix type 564 and the hughes aircraft company model 104d) had a similarly bistable crt, making it possible to do detailed high-resolution graphics at an affordable cost, but you couldn't erase pixels; you could only erase the whole screen

so normal plato users enjoyed multiple fonts, equations with superscripts and subscripts, and full-screen high-resolution graphics that users of other systems could only dream of, unless they had enough money to devote tens of kilobytes of ram to a framebuffer—which, of course, is precisely what the gas-plasma display inspired alan kay to lead a group at xerox parc to start doing, a few years later

(why didn't people use the plasma panels for computer ram? because they were slooow. updating a pixel took on the order of a millisecond. same reason they didn't use dekatrons or ne-3 lamps)

brian dear wrote a very interesting book about the history of the plato project

http://friendlyorangeglow.com/

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