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Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

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Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#91
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Addictions do not have to be life destroying. Plenty of people are addicted to various things but are fully functional and live fulfilled lives. It’s a bit unfair to ask whether OP wants words to have any meaning when it seems you’re a bit fuzzy on the definition of “addiction” yourself.

No, I'm not fuzzy on the definition of addiction. If a behavior has little negative effects, then it's not an addiction.

I don’t think that’s correct.

Others have linked to various respectable dictionaries that support my definition.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#92

I was very curious about this statement by the article's author: > Moreover, if addiction were truly a progressive disease, the data should show that the odds of quitting get worse over time. In fact, they remain the same on an annual basis, which means that as people get older, a higher and higher percentage wind up in recovery. The first reference I clicked on was https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22985744/ , which s…

Those so-called societal solutions should be expanded in scope to include making society a less hostile place in general. Most people tolerate it (with effort), some think it is fine. But then there’s the poor souls who can’t cope with it.

They may make futile attempts to grow a support network that ultimately ends up mocking them instead of supporting. Nobody wants to have their “vibes” ruined by witnessing someone going through a mental health crisis of any severity, though some may see it as an opportunity to win internet points. Understand that most places aren’t reasonably civil like HN or your local tech meetup group (maybe it is because they are addicts themselves in some capacity). In such a situation one might even make things worse for themselves by going through a phase of daring to fight back.

They may expand their search radius with a Google search but find nothing but SEO ghost towns and dejected, sterile walled gardens; instead of the thriving, curious, decentralized communities they remembered from their youths. Until nostalgia gives way to nihilism and then there’s no turning back. That’s assuming they’ve even lasted this long, crutching on that dev experience or what have you. A lot of hazards (not just drugs) can end a person if they lack a viable support network.

These are objective faults with society that should be addressed, because that’s where the disease actually is spreading from. I realize that’s an unrealistic goal, but we have been doing so poorly at it that any competent effort at scale would sow more optimism, and optimism is what they need most.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#93
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> never get close to it again after. The problem isn't whether they can get close to it again, the problem is that for some people, addiction is connected with using an external means of dissociation to obtain instant control over feelings without relating to them on their own terms. there are ways certainly to return to peace but it's a long and narrow road through your own self's karma. karma is not outside. it s a…

The creation of kamma ceases at the attainment of Nibbana. There is happiness (Sukkha) to be found on the path before then. I agree with you about drugs being used as a way to avoid processing complex trauma or difficult memories. The root of the Pāli word for mindfulness (Sati) is Smriti in Sanskrit which literally means "that which is remembered". If you can be mindful with your direct experience, which will includ…

no, it doesnt.

not to be an asshole but i could stop reading carefully after your first sentence

when you claim something exists you should also let people confirm it by what principle and what problems. but you didn't include anything but words. when you really define those words you will find issues. mindfulness isn't real and a mind can't be puried by your (lack of) means. it's a scam.

nor is nirvana attained and nor did you attain the real nirvana

the nirvana you heard about was admitted to have been made up for people who werent ready for the real truth about it

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#94
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The creation of kamma ceases at the attainment of Nibbana. There is happiness (Sukkha) to be found on the path before then. I agree with you about drugs being used as a way to avoid processing complex trauma or difficult memories. The root of the Pāli word for mindfulness (Sati) is Smriti in Sanskrit which literally means "that which is remembered". If you can be mindful with your direct experience, which will includ…

no, it doesnt. not to be an asshole but i could stop reading carefully after your first sentence when you claim something exists you should also let people confirm it by what principle and what problems. but you didn't include anything but words. when you really define those words you will find issues. mindfulness isn't real and a mind can't be puried by your (lack of) means. it's a scam. nor is nirvana attained and…

"The Sanskrit word for mindfulness, smriti, means “remember.” Mindfulness is remembering to come back to the present moment." [0]

"And what is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma? Just this noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This is called the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma." [1]

[0] Thich Nhat Hanh - The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching

[1] https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN35_145.html

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E.g. the Singapore method. It works better than the western methods but people don't want to take it seriously and would rather suppress the suggestion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_prevalenc...

The "by any means necessary" method...? I think a society based around the normalization of this level of punishment is distopian. Achieving the lowest opiate addiction rate possible may not be worth it given the probability of wrongful incarceration/death, its optimising the wrong thing. I think humanity should just accept the multi-facetedness of the universe and work on systems which work without compromising our…

Have you seen the opioid and crystal meth epidemics up close? They are far more dystopian than Singapore executing the odd drug trafficker.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#96
I'm not sure I have seen this idea before. Interesting idea.

I think you need to differentiate between different levels and types of addiction and different substances. It's not all quite the same thing.

Also, not mentioned is the role of advertising and culture in alcohol addiction.

Or poverty and circumstances like homelessness.

Or the availability and social acceptance of substances in a group.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#97
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, for some - most really - the real possibility of death and real consequences is what was necessary to pull out of it. To break through the delusional behavior. But even then, it may not be enough. The Issue, imo, is when death is not a certainty, but a surprise consequence (or sudden) due to bad or inconsistent supply, etc. I recently met someone who it took 6 NARCAN to revive last time he overdid it.…

>> for some - most really - the real possibility of death and real consequences is what was necessary to pull out of it This is not true at all for some significant part of this demographic. And I feel compelled to mention that I am well-aware that this is totally counter-intuitive.

Consequences for my own inaction play an incredibly important motivational role for me. I don't get motivated by sunshine and rainbows, I personally get motivated by consequences.

So it's great that we can provide people 6 doses of narcan and act like they're big strong adults who are down on their luck, but it's incredibly harmful to pretend that this is the only possible solution to motivating behavior.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#98
post #67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, some local governments have been doing safe injection sites . Safe supply is a political football that's scapegoated despite not being implemented anywhere in Canada. And neither is a solution to the homelessness, addictions, and mental health crises. Every time I hear a politician talking about safe supply, they say it's not a silver bullet. Which is weird because nobody claims it's a silver bullet. Know what el…

No your statement is incorrect. We do have safe supply in Canada. The CBC even wrote an article defending our safe supply program. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7071004 And this is a part of my problem with all this. I live in Toronto's downtown core and the explosion in drug issues since these policies came into effect is something I see and live with. And it's the same in our other major cities. And…

Did you read the article you posted? The article states how its beneficial to their patients for stabilizing their use and keeping them off the streets. Additionally the program has a total of 274 patients so it's not some widespread supply occurrence whatsoever, even if all of those people were located just in Toronto. That's a fraction of the addicts out there in that city alone. Or did I miss something?

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#100
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No your statement is incorrect. We do have safe supply in Canada. The CBC even wrote an article defending our safe supply program. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7071004 And this is a part of my problem with all this. I live in Toronto's downtown core and the explosion in drug issues since these policies came into effect is something I see and live with. And it's the same in our other major cities. And…

Did you read the article you posted? The article states how its beneficial to their patients for stabilizing their use and keeping them off the streets. Additionally the program has a total of 274 patients so it's not some widespread supply occurrence whatsoever, even if all of those people were located just in Toronto. That's a fraction of the addicts out there in that city alone. Or did I miss something?

You missed that I was replying to a poster who said we don't have safe supply in Canada and it was just a political scapegoat. Other papers have written about the more nefarious effects of safe supply but I avoided them because I suspected I was dealing with a group that would dismiss all criticism of it as propoganda from opponents who want to punish addicts with prison. So I posted a supportive article from a government sponsored source to prove safe supply actually exists in Canada and is not just a political scapegoat
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