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Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

darrellowens.substack.com

261–270 of 289 posts

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prices are increasing because there is a chronic shortage of places to lives near economic opportunity and high demand to live somewhere you can make a living. Yes. And the solution is not to drive people into dense slums, but to make sure that jobs are available outside of city cores. It will require concerted action, probably something like cap-and-trade for dense office space.

Agglomeration effects mean that any city that tries to split up offices away from the city cores would end up "losing" compared to cities which allow offices and industries to cluster together freely.

Yes. That's why the action has to be concerted.

It's exactly how we dealt with all other types of pollution, btw.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#262
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My neighbors bought their house in 1975, pay $3k in property taxes. I pay 9k in property taxes. If I bought today I'd pay 17k. I will not get a larger house because my property taxes would triple if I wanted another bedroom. A marginally larger house is not worth the marginal cost to move. And with my 2.8% refinanced mortgage and 60% equity, and current rates today, there's no chance I'd sell. It's a dream of mine to…

> My neighbors bought their house in 1975, pay $3k in property taxes. I pay 9k in property taxes. If I bought today I'd pay 17k. What neighborhood? The largest gap I've been able to find is ~2.5x, the one you mention is more than 5x.

Oh I lied, they pay $1300 per year on 117k assessed value for a home purchased in 1975 for 50k.

I bought my house, substantially the same, for 800k, currently worth about 1.5M.

I'm in Pleasanton.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#263
post #67
post #47

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cyberax! YOU LIVE FOR THIS "against urban cities" battle. Hi again wave I'm the bicycle commuter dude who likes walkable and dense cities. Of course course I want just enough of my own private solitude to retreat to as well. But sign me up for density!

> Of course course I want just enough of my own private solitude to retreat to as well. But sign me up for density! Then why do you want density? Do you want other people to live in bunk beds in 40 years?

Oh my god, houses with more then one family in it, that straight out of Judge Dread. Everybody will live in vertical super cities with apartments like capsule hotels.

I would be laughing if it wasn't so utterly sad and depressing that you think that the reality.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#264
post #33
post #3

Wouldn’t the residents revolt as it could bring their house prices down

I don't know if things work the same way in California as they do up here in Washington, but up here I see a large number of complaints from current home owners about rising house prices. That's because rising house prices means rising property taxes.

That is more or less not how it works in Washington. Property tax is divided proportionately across owners by property valuation. If all prices rise by the same percent, tax assessed per property in absolute terms does not change, and as a percentage of price, actually falls. Only if your property value rises faster than the average or if the government assesses more total tax does your property tax go up.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#265
post #206

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> What about all the things I have to haul? Rent a car. Millions of people do it just fine > What if I don’t want to ride a bike Deal with it > the weather is bad Deal with it > What if I have kids Kids ride bikes just fine.

I should rent a car multiple times every week? No thank you. I don’t think people with infants and toddlers expect them to ride a bike. Taking kids around to their clubs and sports, etc isn’t practical. I’m happy almost no one thinks like you do. You sound miserable. I hope you recover.

I'm happy I was not raised sheltered like you.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#266

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> Upzoning doesn't guarantee increased development as developers only build when it makes financial sense to do so, and flooding the market with more units would decrease the potential profit they can make. This doesn't really matter; developers aren't a cartel and they don't care if the margin on new projects goes down. They only have to care that the smaller margin goes to them and not someone else. (To the extent…

Developers aren't a cartel, but they respond to incentives just like anyone else. https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/upzoning-predictions... For one example of how upzoning alone doesn't result in developers exceeding the market saturation rate. To be clear, I support upzoning but I think it should be accompanied with an increase in the holding cost of land, so landowners are incentivised to develop now rather t…

That can be assisted with countercyclical housing policy, like subsidizing construction or a public housing developer.

The US does tons of this on the demand side already, but of course if you limit supply too hard that just makes everything infinitely expensive.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#267
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Upzoning does NOT reduce per-unit prices > Do you have a single data point to back up your assertion? Is there any case of increased density causing a reduction in housing costs? Manhattan is the most dense area in the US. It is also the most expensive. If density reduced cost, one might think Manhattan should be the cheapest? Can you mention a city that massively increased density and the consequence was reduced…

Well there's this https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3532027 """ Notably, intensively-developed properties decrease in value relative to similar dwellings that were not upzoned, showing that the large-scale upzoning had an immediate depreciative effect on pre-existing intensive housing. """ Or this https://research.upjohn.org/up_workingpapers/307/ """ . Next, I combine the address histories with a si…

The second paper could be interesting but can only see the abstract (I don't know anything about Auckland real estate to know about the first one).

The summary of the paper seems sound, can't disagree.

But then, why have we never seen these effects at a macro level, citi-wide?

How come there are no examples of an expensive city that became cheap as density increased?

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#268
post #251

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> You paint with a very broad brush. No I don't, this is realistic. You can easily experience it anytime you like. They're also on Nextdoor if you can't go to any planning meetings. > I have no doubt that for each aspect you list, you can indeed find an example of some extremist who hates it. The problem is the political system is set up to only listen to these people, because urban planners are embarrassed about whe…

> > I assume you have selected place(s) to live? Did you have any criteria for selecting the area? > Walkable to a grocery store. Obviously it can close, but I can't stop that from happening. But I bet you'd be unhappy if you chose this place specifically for the walkable grocery store and suddenly it's gone and now you need to drive. Maybe you don't even have a car, or even parking, because you built your life plans…

> Surely you'd be quite sad and probably annoyed by all that, suddenly having rearrange your life in a big way (either move, or get a car and parking).

I would say the point of housing abundance is to make moving easy. This is both the best way to increase customer power vs landlords and the best way to let people reduce their commutes as their life circumstances change (like where their job is and where their children go to school).

> The whole point of society is that there are common norms in an area. If you're not allowed to have a voice about anything except what you financially own, that's a bleak future.

There's room for it, but overly local democracy is usually bad because it's more corrupt and people pursue things that are against the interests of every other local area. In particular because of Prop 13 in CA, everyone wants the job sites but not the employee housing.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#269
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there's this https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3532027 """ Notably, intensively-developed properties decrease in value relative to similar dwellings that were not upzoned, showing that the large-scale upzoning had an immediate depreciative effect on pre-existing intensive housing. """ Or this https://research.upjohn.org/up_workingpapers/307/ """ . Next, I combine the address histories with a si…

The second paper could be interesting but can only see the abstract (I don't know anything about Auckland real estate to know about the first one). The summary of the paper seems sound, can't disagree. But then, why have we never seen these effects at a macro level, citi-wide? How come there are no examples of an expensive city that became cheap as density increased?

(This is not contrary to you, I think):

See https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/the-auckland-myth-th...

Let's start by defining "cheaper" as "cheaper rent" specifically. Rent will only decrease or stabilise when supply outstrips the absorption rate of the market. In New Zealand, for example, at least one analyst sees the equilibrium absorption rate of rentals to be 2.5% vacancies to total rentals. This means that to make rents go down (or stop going up at the same rate as household income), the available rentals must be greater than 2.5% of the total rentals.

One way to achieve that is to build a whole lot of housing and rent it out, far in excess of population growth in a city. To enable building a whole lot of housing, you can upzone a city. However, increasing potential housing does not actually increase the amount of housing.

To do that, you need to actually build houses. Now, anyone who wants to build a house will usually only do so if it makes financial sense to do so; essentially, when the risk-adjusted return on investment is high enough. Upzoning doesn't really change the risk-adjusted return on investment for developing a house.

Now, lowering rents WILL change the risk-adjusted RoI for building a house; it will LOWER the RoI! So builders will stop building when rents start decreasing, because the financials stop making sense. This is a natural hand-brake on (private) house-building rates, regardless of upzoning. Build enough housing to lower rents, and house builders will stop building houses!

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The kind of counter-factual we are looking for is not really expensive cities that become cheap as density increases, because density brings about more jobs, income, competition, and so on that mixes in with housing data as confounding variables.

Instead, we want: cities where rent as a proportion of disposable income goes down, while increasing population and density. Most likely, any city in that situation is going to be increasing housing units faster than population growth.

The next part of the analysis would be to figure out how they managed to do that despite absorption rates being a handbrake on the market :)

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A side-note; Auckland, which did upzone in ~2016 and again more recently, has not had a notable reduction in rent as a proportion of household income, despite increased density. Population growth meant that it hasn't really beaten the absorption rate of the market, except during Covid (lots of house-building going on at the same time as population decrease).

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived without a car in SF for years. You can certainly get by, especially with e.g. getaround. But there are many valid uses for having a car in the city, even if you live by transit. The primary one is that not everyone’s work will be transit accessible. Mandated minimums for parking are stupid, but so are mandated maximums. This is one of those cases where the invisible hand will approximate an alright solution (…

There’s a very real possibility it’s a tragedy of the commons. Each individual wants to be near public transit, but they also want a car to supplement weekend trips and such. But once everyone gets a car, ridership falls and the public transit disappears.

Only if people actually use those cars for trips they could use public transit for. If there's no convenient parking at their destination, they'll leave the car at home.

Here in Tokyo, lots of people have cars that just stay parked at home most of the time, only used for weekend trips. They don't use them for normal stuff because 1) public transit is generally convenient and 2) there's no convenient (or affordable) parking in most parts of the city.

The key to all of this is parking. Parking takes of a LOT of space in a city. Here, there's no requirements about parking: you can build as much or as little as you like. Land is highly valuable, so land owners generally only allocate as much land to parking as makes sense to them economically. So apartments don't have that much (and those spaces cost a lot), and most businesses don't have any. There are some privately-owned parking lots/garages, but they cost a small fortune, and might not be that close to your destination anyway. If you want to buy a building in a dense area, tear it down, and build a parking, lot, you're free to do so, but it would usually be a stupid way to spend your money, so it doesn't happen.

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