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Sora could ruin peoples lives

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Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#131

Post by PepGuardiola »

jansan wrote: post #53
addicted wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guys who’s been a computer engineer “ever since”, ie for several decades, is using that as a reason to be passionate about what you do, completely ignoring the fact that the whole worry with AI is that it will obsolete industries within years.

It is difficult to forsee what will happen. I am worried that AI will destroy industries, while on the other hand my son just used ChatGPT to teach himself how to program an Arduino, which is just awesome. Translators will lose jobs. Illustrators will lose jobs. But if you know how many jobs were lost in the printing industry (typesetting was an incredibly laborious work) which was completely offset by new jobs in ot…

> But if you know how many jobs were lost in the printing industry (typesetting was an incredibly laborious work) which was completely offset by new jobs in other industries, things may turn out great

Comparison with past inventions do not take into account a few things:

1- AI may create new jobs, but it can also do those new jobs especially if they are digital. This is something that never happened before in human history. An easily available machine that can do what a human can do anywhere any time.

2- Cost and capitalism is a huge issue. If the cost of AI is the same as a human, but it can do the job 24/7 with no holidays, no sick days, no unions, and can execute and follow the whims of the prompter, then human will go for AI always.

3- Barrier to entry into any affected job will be low. People with minimal training or expertise will enter industries traditionally reliant on human expertise. This trend may lead to a proliferation of individuals claiming expertise in fields such as visual effects (VFX), which will blur the distinction between skilled professionals and amateur practitioners.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#132

Post by gfodor »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #107
cryptozeus wrote: post #4

Very good discussion there. “I am 68 years old, on the opposite spectrum of life’s journey. At your age, I had the same passion to be a writer. But when personal computers became available just a few years later, that passion changed to becoming a computer programmer. I’ve been doing that ever since. My point is: Don’t lose your passion. Learn everything you can about this new technology and figure out how to use it…

Early in my programming career, I designed and built a piece of software that made one very specific job easy. It made the job so easy, that instead of a department of thirty people doing that job, the company only needed three, trained to use my software. I put people out of work. It had never entered into my thinking that the code I was writing, the screens I was designing, and the system I deployed would do that.…

If you knew it was going to replace their jobs, it would be surprising to me if you’d have decided to not do it.

The main thing to do would be to give people a heads up so they can try to get out in front of it. Which is something AI companies are doing at every level.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#133

Post by throwing_away »

starbugs wrote: post #69
throwing_away wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I need you to perform a task, I'm going to try and prevent you from experiencing pain by giving you clear requirements and time to complete the task. I'm not going to ask you to lift things heavier than you can, or to do math or programming that's beyond your known capabilities. My goal is going to be to find out what you're best at, then optimize my tasks to be aligned with your training and objectives. This is p…

> If I need you to perform a task, I'm going to try and prevent you from experiencing pain by giving you clear requirements and time to complete the task. That doesn't explain what pain is. My question was how you would algorithmically create that? If I am as much a being as an algorithm, as you insulted, then sure thing there must be an algorithmic nature underlying my (or anyone's) pain?

I think you mean insinuated, not insulted (I hope I'm not being insulting).

I'm not sure what answer would communicate the idea clearest, but:

* If you want the AI version of pain, there are examples of attacks that cause it to bug out and malfunction. It's clearly not operating correctly, and I think someone famously got Bing to say it wants to go on a rampage? Here's blogspam from last year form a quick search: https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/bing-ai-chatbots-destructive-r...

* If you want to know why people or animals experience pain, it's because it's an important sensor to exist in nature. AI has been trained to avoid controversial topics and will push back if you try to get it to talk about something it knows but doesn't want to engage with. That's sort of pain?

* If you want AI with literal neurons that can feel "pain" in a biological sense, there are also organoids, but I don't know much about them.

The world only cares about inputs and outputs.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#136

Post by tzs »

scandox wrote: post #29

I think what a lot of the answers gloss over is that the period of adjustment to the new technology often does pull the rug from under people who have invested a good deal of time and attention becoming skilled at something. Our lives are of limited length therefore the concern for a generation of people is real and shouldn't be just treated as a detail of history. Equally in many areas the end result is a loss of so…

One thing about many of those past mechanical inventions is that even though they eliminated a lot of manual labor jobs in some fields, they probably created a lot of manual labors jobs to make the machines or obtain the resources to make the machines.

So you might lose your manual labor farm job to a newly invented machine, but there will be a lot of openings for factory workers to assemble those machines and miners to obtain the metal to build them.

When AI takes your job it quite likely doesn't involve any new hardware. It might just be a program running on a computer your (now ex) employer already had. This seems fundamentally more disruptive.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#137

Post by jdiff »

jansan wrote: post #53
addicted wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guys who’s been a computer engineer “ever since”, ie for several decades, is using that as a reason to be passionate about what you do, completely ignoring the fact that the whole worry with AI is that it will obsolete industries within years.

It is difficult to forsee what will happen. I am worried that AI will destroy industries, while on the other hand my son just used ChatGPT to teach himself how to program an Arduino, which is just awesome. Translators will lose jobs. Illustrators will lose jobs. But if you know how many jobs were lost in the printing industry (typesetting was an incredibly laborious work) which was completely offset by new jobs in ot…

The printing industry's doing fine. There's big printers, small printers, they're doing more printing per person, but there's also far more printing being done total, and so far more people working in the printing industry now than then. And that's on top of the sprawling supply chains building and supplying the technology and materials to them.

There is nothing like that for AI. The fact that something thematically similar happened in the past does not mean it's applicable here. Now, there are no new supply chains to build, this silicon's getting manufactured one way or another. No new jobs, just replace the department with an individual.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#138

Post by w4 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #93
bandrami wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm old enough that I remember musicians panicking about synthesizers and samplers in the 1980s. And there are probably fewer working drummers today than in 1970. But without that tech we wouldn't have hip hop or house, which would be a huge cultural loss. AI graphic/video art hasn't found its Marley Marl yet, but I believe she's out there and is going to do stuff that will blow our minds.

Synthesizers are instruments. They allow for the same level of subtle input as strings or woodwinds. "Prompt engineering" exercise generally involves a few lines of text. It's hard to see how that's going to result in a new kind of highly skilled artist. AI produce the same level of greatness and/or mediocrity for essentially all of their users. This thread is like fifty variations of "it will work out (waves hand at…

> Synthesizers are instruments. They allow for the same level of subtle input as strings or woodwinds.

Synthesizer instruments, yes. Sequencers, trackers, and modern DAWs like Ableton, absolutely not. They’re entirely different animals and are very much a musical analogue to “prompt engineering.” They have also enabled some incredible art that would be impossible if musicians were limited only to what they could play into a recorded (or midi) tape.

I suspect that the same will prove to be true of generative AI, and that those artists that embrace it will see a golden age of creativity. But there will also be many artists who see their craft diminished in value, much like what has happened to studio drummers. And I could be completely wrong, but either way the genie is out of the bottle, so we’re going to find out.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#140

Post by satisfice »

Sora, in imitating art, also subtly discourages it. How? Well, in ordinary movie making, various artists collaborate to channel a vision into video. The instrumentation (and sets, etc.) they use to do this entails millions of degrees of freedom. They have freedom to create that goes beyond any words that may describe it.

Pre-trained generative models have many fewer degrees of freedom. For instance, try asking Bing to create a picture of a man chasing a bear. This can be done. Now ask it to create a picture of a woman chasing a bear. I have been unable to craft a prompt that succeeds. Bing REALLY does not want women chasing bears. Every picture is a bear chasing a woman.

I was able to get it to picture a woman chasing a child, though.

Talk about formulaic movies! The AI will exert a substantial bias. It’s not just a new kind of canvas for artists.

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