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Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

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Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#61

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

zer00eyz wrote: post #26
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the executives. The lower down managers are focused more on screwing the employees.

I know plenty of people in Apple CS. Most of them are loyal to apple, and have worked there long term. Apple takes good care of its "regular people" in the states.

I know an Apple worker (don't know what you mean by CS), and he's worked there for decades and from all reports they do treat the employees they value very well. Not sure about the more expendable ones though.

In any case, my comment was a little tongue in cheek.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#62

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #18
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #13

Does Apple think its shenanigans are going to precipitate a backlash against EU regulation? Because every time I read about a new round of BS my blood boils and my attitude against Apple and other huge anticompetitive corporates just hardens.

Apple is a shitty company that makes very good products and has very good marketing (which has basically ensorcelled a lot of people to reduce their judgment)

Thank you for introducing me to the word 'ensorcel'.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#63

Post by SSLy »

edandersen wrote: post #32

Presuming Apple left PWAs in just as they were with no changes, i.e. hardcoded to Safari, wouldn't Mozilla (and potentially MS) have immediately sued or complained that Apple was in violation of the DMA by not allowing their browser engines to launch from user added home screen icons? If this is the case then leaving PWAs as they stood risked bazillions in fines from the EU. No?

Nothing except lack of will stops them from making PWA's accessible to other browsers.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#64

Post by curt15 »

cybrox wrote: post #51
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

Do you think there's a general lack of awareness or education these days about the world wide web? People who grew up with the internet couldn't get by without knowing the possibilities of websites and web browsers. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I view web apps through that lens -- if an "app" merely wraps a website or otherwise relies on internet connectivity for core functionality I'd rather just use a full-blooded web browser.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#65

Post by szasamasa »

dubcanada wrote: post #20
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

they will care in the future(!)

1. first ensure that companies may start to think strategically about putting their best to web programming (not web "designers" of flickering html screens who use css packages that are 1mb without dynamic loading and the page uses 1% of it)

2. wait 2 years

3. get the same UX (in standalone mode if you wish aka home screen web apps) via your freely chosen browser engine via the web for 100$ instead of 130$ in the App Store (some app lifetime cost, for the sake of argument)

4. see how people of the future decide :)

Before you complain about shitty websites and nobody wants web apps anyways, first ask the question whether you know any good company or developers who re-focused their resources (programmers) to abandon native programming and take all the fix cost hits for a strategy that delivers the same experience without 30% tax getting a competitive edge.

Oh, you cannot make such strategic decisions until regulators of the world force Apple to abandon anti-competitive practices? Like as you see even in 2024 there is still no clarity whether it will be possible to deliver the same standalone UX to iOS via the Web because of Apple?

Your reasoning is somewhat circular. Let alternative "app stores" like the web deliver the same standalone UX to iOS because it is hell possible with current web capabilities and every OS including macOS is capable of supporting browser sandboxing.

THEN wait 2-3-5 years so that best programmers can study the web and migrate to create the same fantastic experiences you claim by native apps.

THEN write your above comment if still applies, thanks!

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#66

Post by ecf »

endisneigh wrote: post #16

I wish all of these folks complaining about Apple would go on strike and stop developing stuff on their hardware instead of whining. Even better if they could make their own hardware without any of the supposed baggage with the software. A lot of these companies whining are worth billions so they can afford it. Of course, they won’t because they want money just like Apple, but if Spotify, epic etc stopped working on…

This.

ALL OF THIS IS A NON ISSUE. All. Of. It.

These people won’t take one ounce of responsibility and not buy the damn thing.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#67

Post by throwaway11460 »

cybrox wrote: post #51
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#68

Post by tuna74 »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #8

It always leaves a sour taste hearing him say that. While he is undoubtedly 100% right, we all know he's not saying it because he cares about a free market. He only cares because it's eating up his share of the profit. Why can't we have other people at the forefront of this than billionaires?

I have the exact opinions as Sweeney on this matter, but nobody cares what I think. Poeple listens to Sweeney, very few listen to me.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#69

Post by cqqxo4zV46cp »

cybrox wrote: post #51
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How are Android web apps going? An argument based on a hypothetical is inherently weak.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#70

Post by roenxi »

cybrox wrote: post #51
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

I want my mother to have as safe a phone as possible with a bare minimum of ways she can accidentally get hacked. Ideally with a gatekeeper between her and anything she is going to install that has permission to use phone features; like cameras. She would very much concur, insofar as she understands the issues.

She's using an iPhone specifically because Apple doesn't go for shenanigans like multiple ways to get apps on the phone. The point is to have an App store and funnel everything through it. There is enough sensitive stuff on a phone that I'm not even sure running a full web browser is a good idea for her. "Limited capability" really is the name of the game here.

It isn't just we don't care because Apple doesn't support it. We are in fact grateful to Apple for not supporting it. This is value-add by Apple. The "App for Everything" model of interacting with iPhones is/was a brief golden age for unsophisticated users where Apple was more than earning its commission. Android phones are technically fine, if people wanted this sort of thing they would go buy Android.

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