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Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

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Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#191

Post by sensanaty »

josuepeq wrote: post #109

I like the idea! I also like Dingbats. And parking. Removing parking minimums is a noble idea, but one thing I have noticed is that the new “parking free” apartment buildings in San Francisco, such as the Tenderloin and SOMA, are having a hard time getting all of their units filled, even with prices slashed. This is a problem that buildings with parking seem to not have. Even with good transit, the city is much easie…

I now live in the Netherlands but spent some time in SF, and the problem really is just horrifically bad public transport options over there.

Sure, the US is a bit different in that getting to other cities is more difficult without a car, that's definitely true. However within the city itself? My building has dedicated parking spaces for the residents - as in you can't even get into the garage if you don't have a keyfob that opens the garage doors - and of the neighbours I'm acquainted with, people avoid taking their cars as much as possible. And this isn't due to congestion or whatever, cycling or taking a train/bus/metro is just cheaper & more convenient if we're talking within the Netherlands.

My favorite anecdote about a country getting rid of car infrastructure is actually in the city I live in now, Utrecht, where they replaced a highway with a canal [1], and right now Amsterdam has an initiative to bring the number of cars down drastically. They're getting rid of parking spaces in favor of better, human-friendly spaces, small gardens and things of that variety. There's similar initiatives across the whole country, and they've all worked out pretty amazingly in terms of QoL for people.

The US has a planning issue where life is unlivable unless you drive everywhere, but there's no reason for major cities like SF to have this issue if the people in charge really gave a shit. Having good public transportation is an easily attainable goal for cities with so many resources, yet it keeps getting fucked over by car-centric infrastructure.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/14/utrecht-restor...

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#193

Post by nemo44x »

tialaramex wrote: post #157
floydnoel wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is 0.5 spaces per unit, not 3+

Yes, because you don't need a car if you live in a well designed city. I live in a UK city and I've read the plans for the building I live in, it was submitted twice before it was accepted. Nobody had a problem with the interiors, they're nice which is why I bought one. But the original plan was rejected in the 1980s for lack of parking -everybody needs two cars right?. The same plan (with internal upgrades, nobody w…

People like to do more things than take the train back and forth. I’ve spent a lot of time in the UK and I’ve had to use a car to go to most places outside of commuting to and within the city. In the USA there’s even more to do and see that requires a car.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#194

Post by nemo44x »

zozbot234 wrote: post #162
01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a problem for a land tax. If cars make more money than homes and businesses, go for it.

Too many cars will just add to congestion and make the surrounding spaces less desirable. You could address this with a congestion charge, but that has problems of its own. Limits to parking in some key spots around transit can then be a workable alternative.

Just because I have a car doesn’t mean I intend to drive it in the city. There’s a whole world out there and a lot to do that requires a car. So if I live by a train that’s good for commuting to the city I’m now stuck only doing that? What about the many things I do that have nothing to do with that?

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#195

Post by nemo44x »

sensanaty wrote: post #191
josuepeq wrote: post #109

I like the idea! I also like Dingbats. And parking. Removing parking minimums is a noble idea, but one thing I have noticed is that the new “parking free” apartment buildings in San Francisco, such as the Tenderloin and SOMA, are having a hard time getting all of their units filled, even with prices slashed. This is a problem that buildings with parking seem to not have. Even with good transit, the city is much easie…

I now live in the Netherlands but spent some time in SF, and the problem really is just horrifically bad public transport options over there. Sure, the US is a bit different in that getting to other cities is more difficult without a car, that's definitely true. However within the city itself? My building has dedicated parking spaces for the residents - as in you can't even get into the garage if you don't have a key…

Life is a lot more than cities and traveling between them. The USA has a vast array of things not in it even close to cities. The USA is vast and beautiful and many people like to explore our nature, parks, etc, etc.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#196

Post by zozbot234 »

nemo44x wrote: post #194
zozbot234 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many cars will just add to congestion and make the surrounding spaces less desirable. You could address this with a congestion charge, but that has problems of its own. Limits to parking in some key spots around transit can then be a workable alternative.

Just because I have a car doesn’t mean I intend to drive it in the city. There’s a whole world out there and a lot to do that requires a car. So if I live by a train that’s good for commuting to the city I’m now stuck only doing that? What about the many things I do that have nothing to do with that?

You can keep your car parked elsewhere and get to it via a folding bike or stand-up scooter.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#197

Post by nemo44x »

zozbot234 wrote: post #196
nemo44x wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because I have a car doesn’t mean I intend to drive it in the city. There’s a whole world out there and a lot to do that requires a car. So if I live by a train that’s good for commuting to the city I’m now stuck only doing that? What about the many things I do that have nothing to do with that?

You can keep your car parked elsewhere and get to it via a folding bike or stand-up scooter.

What about all the things I have to haul? What if I don’t want to ride a bike or the weather is bad?

What if I have kids? There’s a million reasons your solution is awful.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#198

Post by sensanaty »

nemo44x wrote: post #195
sensanaty wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I now live in the Netherlands but spent some time in SF, and the problem really is just horrifically bad public transport options over there. Sure, the US is a bit different in that getting to other cities is more difficult without a car, that's definitely true. However within the city itself? My building has dedicated parking spaces for the residents - as in you can't even get into the garage if you don't have a key…

Life is a lot more than cities and traveling between them. The USA has a vast array of things not in it even close to cities. The USA is vast and beautiful and many people like to explore our nature, parks, etc, etc.

Realistically what's the proportion of car use between going to/from work (or the grocery store or other similar destinations) vs traveling the country for your average USAian? Especially one living in a dense metro area of some kind? And even then, I'm not saying we get rid of all cars, just that owning one shouldn't be a necessity in a massive, dense metropolitan area in order to get from point A to point B.

I own a car myself and use it regularly for longer road trips the few times of year I do that, but I avoid using my car like the plague if I'm traveling within 90% of the Netherlands.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#199

Post by zozbot234 »

nemo44x wrote: post #197
zozbot234 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can keep your car parked elsewhere and get to it via a folding bike or stand-up scooter.

What about all the things I have to haul? What if I don’t want to ride a bike or the weather is bad? What if I have kids? There’s a million reasons your solution is awful.

Oh yes, cargo bikes are a thing too. And people do ride bikes in bad weather, especially in a place like Berkeley.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#200

Post by ajmurmann »

madsbuch wrote: post #150
ajmurmann wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is concern about underutilizing land, pass a land value tax and the market will figure out what's the best way to improve the value of the property itself beyond the windfall from the unimproved land going up in value due to surrounding economic activity. When it comes to housing the US seems to suffer some kind of disability that makes it impossible to not be tempted to steer towards a planned economy.

While that is true in the abstract, it will take long to adjust. modern city planners have realized that car centric cities does not scale. ie. if you want to city that scales to Tokyo levels it needs mostly to rely on transit schemes. The US has an (alas, quite new) history of overindexing on cars. moves like this will drive the development faster than the market alone. however, parallel to this, tax for roads in ci…

Car-centricity is definitely a problem. In addition to what you point out, I'd love to see a move away from any kind of parking mandate and removal of street parking. If there is demand for parking, let someone build a parking structure which is more space efficient and honestly less frustrating as a driver as well.

I think the problem goes further though, but maybe once the fears of "congestion" are gone the fear of shadows and "becoming Manhattan" won't need able to hold us back

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