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Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

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Re: Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

#31

Post by codeflo »

I mean, there's a point here. Even in the videos OpenAI shows as "successes", you can spot uncanny coherence mistakes. There's one where a forklift morphs into one that's turned 90 degrees. The previous frame looks a bit ambiguous about the direction the squarish shape was pointing at, and somehow what happens for several seconds before that wasn't a strong enough signal for the model. And in the "failure" videos, we see objects merging and splitting in similar ways that DALL-E inserts extra arms into scenes with groups of people.

To me, it's clear that there's no real global understanding yet. Whether this person's preferred ML approach solves that, I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell.

Re: Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

#35

Post by kgwgk »

bonzaidrinkingb wrote: post #29
PoignardAzur wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> long-term scene coherence, FWIW none of the video models released so far demonstrate any object coherence whatsoever, which suggests they don't have the higher level capabilities you mention yet. In Sora, as soon as an object is obstructed by an obstacle or goes offscreen, it's likely to disappear or be radically transformed.

You've seen the demos of a couple holding hands and walking, or the museum shots where all the paintings maintain coherence, or a woman temporarily obscuring a street sign. Or you haven't seen those demos. Either way...

If the "couple holding hands and walking" one is the "Beautiful, snowy Tokyo city is bustling. ..." look at the traffic on the left side of the frame:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezaMd4l_5kw

We also have the spontaneous creation and annihilation of wolves and the shape-shifting chair:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jspYKxFY7Sc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfbImB0_rKY

Re: Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

#36

Post by advael »

I feel like LeCunn often gets it half right and then gets overzealous/has a conflict of interest. I think there are good reasons to be less than perfectly optimistic that OpenAI's claims will bear out (The kind of errors SORA makes seem to imply that "simulation" may be a stretch in my opinion, I talked about this a little in the thread about that announcement and honestly when I first read this post I thought he hit the nail on the head until about the fifth sentence), but I don't think there's strong evidence to suggest that they definitely can't yet, and this seems more like a sales pitch for the model he's currently working on than an expert making a particularly compelling case via better understanding of the theory or practice of this thing

Like, in general I think there's a lot of hype around AGI and that skepticism toward OpenAI's claims isn't completely unwarranted, but the amount of public attention on the topic lately has caused everyone to commit to very hard lines that lack nuance about the implications of various advances. It's in some ways cool that AI is no longer just an academic curiosity, but it makes for a lot of nonsense to slog through, even from top researchers

Re: Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

#37

Post by subtra3t »

thriftwy wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Original content of comment, in case it gets flagged:

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It is a huge stretch to assert that successful movie directors "understand the physical world".

They do a worse thing: understand the human psyche.

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Unrelated but I really don't like these analogies. They use clever words to try to hand wave some vague ideas into existence, trying to appear smart but never really succeeding.

Re: Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

#38

Post by yreg »

awaythrow999 wrote: post #34

It's impossible to access this content (even more so now that nitter is dead). Should HN continue driving traffic to a site that is entirely inaccessible?

hn should drive traffic wherever the content is published / mirrored. If there are multiple options, choose the most public one.

We shouldn't censor ourselves and not discuss information that was posted on twitter.

Re: Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

#39

Post by badgersnake »

awaythrow999 wrote: post #34

It's impossible to access this content (even more so now that nitter is dead). Should HN continue driving traffic to a site that is entirely inaccessible?

Given tweets are so short, just paste the whole tweet into the text.

If it’s a whole thread though then just don’t bother. That approach to blogging is just dumb.

Re: Let me clear a huge misunderstanding

#40

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

justanotherjoe wrote: post #23
throw310822 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the same way ChatGPT is only predicting the next word with no rhyme or reason. However to actually predict the next word so that the entire sentence makes sense and is relevant for the context (e.g. answers a question) you probably must be actually understanding the meaning of the words and the language and have a world model. I can't imagine a NN moving around pixels in the shape of a cat with no understanding…

Of course. But stable diffusion can do that. It understands what a cat is and can draw cat wearing a hat. Videos are about actions, cause and effect, which is entirely different thing than still pictures.

It doesn't understand a cat at all. Humans understand, models are deterministic functions with some randomness added in. Just because it appears to understand doesn't make it so.
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