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Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

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Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#81

Post by jasfi »

afarviral wrote: post #78
jasfi wrote: post #74

I believe that stress is one of the cornerstones of addiction. When people can't handle stress they turn to substances. When people "grow out" of addiction, they're really either finding another addiction, or learning to manage their stress and let go of substances used to cope. I'd love to see trials of what Ashwagandha can do for addiction, because it lowers cortisol nearly immediately and is a relatively safe herb…

Studies typically show reductions in cortisol levels after several weeks or months of regular ashwagandha supplementation

Those were likely long-term studies only. I can tell you I always feel a drop in stress within minutes. But I only take it when I feel stressed, and not daily. I think the effects could be too strong if taken daily.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#82

Post by j0057 »

jdietrich wrote: post #73
tayo42 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does harm reduction include safe access to drugs? Basically this is why all substances need to be legal. So it's regulated. So many needless deaths becasue of overdoses that didn't need to happen. People just need to be supported through their low points so they come out the other side. To many ignorant people have an opinion on this though, as you can see in some of these comments. If you never used drugs, don't kno…

>Does harm reduction include safe access to drugs? Only if it's part of an evidence-based and empirically validated strategy. We know that safe access to drugs can work as part of a harm reduction strategy, but there's also good reason to believe that thoughtless moves towards decriminalisation or legalisation can exacerbate harms. The Swiss model has worked incredibly well after a lot of difficult trial-and-error, b…

The Portugal model consists of decriminalisation, harm reduction and rehabilitation, but the Portuguese government has basically defunded the rehabilitation programs. Seems to me no wonder that the approach is failing if you take away the one factor that would reduce addictions, but also disingenuous to claim that the entire approach was a mistake. It worked, and now after defending an important part of it, it no longer works.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#83

Post by amanaplanacanal »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #61
alpaca128 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That would increase total suffering Not for long, afterwards there would be nobody left to suffer.

This debate is in bad faith.

Just taking the suggestion to its logical conclusion I think.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#84

Post by echelon_musk »

_z7iw wrote: post #65
hn72774 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the first-time heroin experience described as feeling like "being wrapped in a warm, wet blanket." What else feels like that? A lot of addiction is trying to get back to the comfort of the womb to escape from early childhood traumas and abuses. You get a taste of that with the use but never get close to it again after.

> never get close to it again after. The problem isn't whether they can get close to it again, the problem is that for some people, addiction is connected with using an external means of dissociation to obtain instant control over feelings without relating to them on their own terms. there are ways certainly to return to peace but it's a long and narrow road through your own self's karma. karma is not outside. it s a…

The creation of kamma ceases at the attainment of Nibbana.

There is happiness (Sukkha) to be found on the path before then.

I agree with you about drugs being used as a way to avoid processing complex trauma or difficult memories.

The root of the Pāli word for mindfulness (Sati) is Smriti in Sanskrit which literally means "that which is remembered".

If you can be mindful with your direct experience, which will include difficult memories, you can start to purify your mind and view and prevent the future arising of unwholesome (akusala) kamma.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#85

Post by growfeather »

lebean wrote: post #14
ghuroo1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say almost everything is acceptable once you understand the balance and how it impacts you if you do/over do it. I agree there are a lot of normalised addictions, including the modern trend of counting every step, heart rate beat, times you go in the bathroom and even sleep analysis so you can compare to your friends.

It's true, when I started counting my steps, I just couldn't stop. Then I had to have data about my sleep and bowel movements, so that I could have data-driven insights about my body. My friends and family got annoyed at my compulsion to gather data about mundane activities. It got so bad, I started doing sexual favors to feed my habit, and I am ashamed to admit I was gathering data while I did it to improve my perfo…

I used to be just like you, then I found recovery. I started with 12 steps, then moved on to 13 steps, then…

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#86

Post by rPlayer6554 »

rysertio wrote: post #23

This article confuses drug use with addiction. Addiction is a state where a patient wants to quit a drug, but can't. And that is when you want to intervene as a psychiatrist.

No addiction as I understand it is _even if they want to_ they cannot. Not all addicts want to quit.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#87

Post by vivekd »

afarviral wrote: post #77
vivekd wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No your statement is incorrect. We do have safe supply in Canada. The CBC even wrote an article defending our safe supply program. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7071004 And this is a part of my problem with all this. I live in Toronto's downtown core and the explosion in drug issues since these policies came into effect is something I see and live with. And it's the same in our other major cities. And…

Could the gradual impacts of economic downturn, unemployment and unhappiness post-pandemic be a contributing factor? From available data on drug overdoses and homelessness things appear relatively stable but some data from last year is missing. An uptick may be on the cards based on your observations. I'm curious what specifically is to blame in your view and why other factors seem unlikely? What do you suggest shoul…

I mean there aren't enough quality studies to make conclusions either way. But the promise to us was that safe supply would help drug users, and this uptick in homeless drug addicts and more people suffering visibility from drug issues at least seems to run counter to that that should at least give us pause and make us re evaluate

This was done because Portugal did it and people in places like hacker news started pushing it as evidence based because of self proclaimed success in Portugal. Well overdose and drug use is up in Portugal, it's up in Portland and it's up here. How long are proponents going to suggest other factors - this safe supply idea is starting to look less evidence based and more like a religious belief.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#88

Post by whythre »

notso411 wrote: post #47
hn72774 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the first-time heroin experience described as feeling like "being wrapped in a warm, wet blanket." What else feels like that? A lot of addiction is trying to get back to the comfort of the womb to escape from early childhood traumas and abuses. You get a taste of that with the use but never get close to it again after.

A lot of addiction is trying to get back to the comfort of the womb to escape from early childhood traumas and abuses. Says who

Yeah this seems like pseudo-Freudian claptrap.

People soothe their pain and trauma with all sorts of self-destructive behavior. Trying to numb the pain doesn’t mean they are trying to crawl back in the womb.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#89

Post by tanseydavid »

lazide wrote: post #62
jdietrich wrote: post #9

This is why harm reduction is absolutely crucial. A lot of people will recover on their own given time, but you can't recover if you're dead. A moralistic model based primarily or solely on abstinence-based recovery fails addicts, their families and society.

Alternatively, for some - most really - the real possibility of death and real consequences is what was necessary to pull out of it. To break through the delusional behavior. But even then, it may not be enough. The Issue, imo, is when death is not a certainty, but a surprise consequence (or sudden) due to bad or inconsistent supply, etc. I recently met someone who it took 6 NARCAN to revive last time he overdid it.…

>> for some - most really - the real possibility of death and real consequences is what was necessary to pull out of it

This is not true at all for some significant part of this demographic.

And I feel compelled to mention that I am well-aware that this is totally counter-intuitive.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#90

Post by tanseydavid »

notso411 wrote: post #47
hn72774 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the first-time heroin experience described as feeling like "being wrapped in a warm, wet blanket." What else feels like that? A lot of addiction is trying to get back to the comfort of the womb to escape from early childhood traumas and abuses. You get a taste of that with the use but never get close to it again after.

A lot of addiction is trying to get back to the comfort of the womb to escape from early childhood traumas and abuses. Says who

That wording is exceptionally poor in my opinion. Just above, @blueprint, does a fabulous job of summarizing what I think is essentially the same idea (but with far better wording):

"..the problem is that for some people, addiction is connected with: * using an external means of dissociation * to obtain instant control over feelings * without relating to them on their own terms"

Someone who is without serious trauma won't likely have the same reaction/response to this level of dissociation.

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