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Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

nwavguy.blogspot.com

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Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#71

Post by snvzz »

mckirk wrote: post #61
Aurornis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but THEN comes the amp question... and the rabbithole deepens.. and then the DAC and in the end I give up, every time.. Well I have some great news for you! In 2024, you don’t need to spend mega bucks to get a good DAC or amp. You might not need one at all! One of the better performing and measuring DACs out there right now is the $9 Apple USB-C dongle: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/r..…

I was reading the parent comment and just could feel myself itching to recommend AudioScienceReview, but then was glad to see it was already the top answer. It's such a relief when you finally have some hard data to compare options in that snakeoil-laden field. I built my stack based on the reviews there, and I've been completely satisfied with my Topping D10 (for DAC) and JDS Atom (for an amp), which cost me like $2…

Sennheiser HD600 and Topping DX3Pro+[0] are the combination I recommend today.

The Atom doesn't hold up as well as when it launched in today's market at that price point. That DX3Pro+ is a strongly measuring dac+amp single unit at the price.

As for HD600, they're the time-proven, neutral, uncolored, accurate timbre kings. Great overall balance.

0. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/t...

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#72

Post by nyanpasu64 »

This is also why cheap resistive 3.5mm "volume knobs" sound like shit; they produce a high source impedance (as seen by the headphones), which causes frequency-dependent amplitude (and phase?) shifts of output sound (even before the potentiometer starts failing, causing the sound to crackle).

A few years ago, I've built attenuators out of voltage dividers (using around 2-20 ohm resistors). Unfortunately at any given attenuation factor, there's a limit to how high of an impedance you can expose to the audio source, along with how low of an impedance you can expose to the headphones. Additionally, to compensate for stray ground-line resistance causing inverted crosstalk between the stereo channels, I also add a crossfeed resistor or potentiometer of 500 ohms or so, ideally tuned based on the headphone impedance. If you use a potentiometer you can take one side of your headphones/earbuds off, send loud noise to that side alone, and turn the potentiometer knob until no sound is audible in your remaining ear. (To determine the correct fixed resistor value, you can send quiet noise to the remaining ear and adjust its volume until it cancels out crosstalk.) Also since I use TRS cables/sockets, this breaks headphone mics.

I've been meaning to make a PCB version of my attenuator with SMD resistors to reduce space, but don't know where to find a reliable PCB-mount headphone jack (or 3.5mm dongle cable). If anyone has suggestions for a PCB-mount headphone jack (available in the US), let me know!

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#73

Post by iamacyborg »

dusted wrote: post #44

I find myself guilty of deep-diving into headfi-territory audiophilia once in a while, this time it got to me as well and I started thinking how neat it'd be to finally do it and get some high-end replacement for my 250 ohm dt990 pro cans, and I've heard both the hifman arya and sennheiser hd800s and know they are quite a lot better.. but THEN comes the amp question... and the rabbithole deepens.. and then the DAC an…

I think at some point you just need to focus on listening to the music as opposed to listening to the hardware, and spare some time thinking about the aesthetic considerations of the gear you’re buying.

Anything else and as you’ve noticed you’ll always be chasing for something “better”.

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#74

Post by bonestamp2 »

dusted wrote: post #44

I find myself guilty of deep-diving into headfi-territory audiophilia once in a while, this time it got to me as well and I started thinking how neat it'd be to finally do it and get some high-end replacement for my 250 ohm dt990 pro cans, and I've heard both the hifman arya and sennheiser hd800s and know they are quite a lot better.. but THEN comes the amp question... and the rabbithole deepens.. and then the DAC an…

For headphones, unless you need an obscene amount of bass, I've never heard any headphones better than STAX (staxheadphones.com). Because they're electrostatic, there aren't a lot of amplifier choices so that also makes things easy (and they make those too of course).

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#75

Post by mitchell209 »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #74
dusted wrote: post #44

I find myself guilty of deep-diving into headfi-territory audiophilia once in a while, this time it got to me as well and I started thinking how neat it'd be to finally do it and get some high-end replacement for my 250 ohm dt990 pro cans, and I've heard both the hifman arya and sennheiser hd800s and know they are quite a lot better.. but THEN comes the amp question... and the rabbithole deepens.. and then the DAC an…

For headphones, unless you need an obscene amount of bass, I've never heard any headphones better than STAX (staxheadphones.com). Because they're electrostatic, there aren't a lot of amplifier choices so that also makes things easy (and they make those too of course).

Their flagship model SR-X9000 are by far the best headphones I've ever listened to. EStats are insane and it's a new goal of mine to get the whole setup.

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#76

Post by grumpyprole »

dusted wrote: post #44

I find myself guilty of deep-diving into headfi-territory audiophilia once in a while, this time it got to me as well and I started thinking how neat it'd be to finally do it and get some high-end replacement for my 250 ohm dt990 pro cans, and I've heard both the hifman arya and sennheiser hd800s and know they are quite a lot better.. but THEN comes the amp question... and the rabbithole deepens.. and then the DAC an…

I have Sennheiser HD800S with an RME ADI2 DAC. They sound absolutely incredible for classical and jazz music - amazing soundstage and detail. Possibly not the best for rock/pop (HD600 might be better). The RME ADI2 DAC is great, although I don't need to use the EQ for the HD800S at all. There must be something cheaper out there with less features, but an equally good amp.

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#77

Post by mmmrk »

boomskats wrote: post #40

For context, the NwAvGuy O2 amp[0] design is pretty famous now. The dude even lays it down right there[1] in the comments of the linked article. And then soon after that iirc he just disappears? [0]: https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/o2-headphone-amp.html [1]: https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance...

Yeah, I also got an ODAC combo (amp and DAC sandwiched in an enclosure) in continuous use since it released way back when. The only annoyance is that there's probably something wrong with the USB cable, as it loses connection depending on how you twist it, so I may accidentally strike it and then spend a few minutes wiggling the connectors to get it back. The Micro USB connector choice didn't age too well, so I can't easily find a replacement with chokes :)

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#78

Post by formerly_proven »

kragen wrote: post #57
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just go with RJ11 (6P4C) instead? The PCB mount connectors are cheap, cables are easily available even from most local electronics stores, up to 10m lengths.

yeah, rj-11 or 4p4c ('rj-9') are the other candidates, and they have some real advantages over 3.5mm jacks: - cables are available even from hardware stores, and also so are bus adaptors which connect two or three or five cables together, pin for pin; these do exist for 3.5mm jacks but are less common - spiral 4p4c cables are cheap and easily available - it doesn't short the power rails together as you're plugging it…

Reliability of 3.5mm vs phone jacks is probably pretty similar (500-1000 cycles?), 1/4” jacks, at least the good ones like Neutrik, brag about >10k cycles. I think there’s a reason audio patch panels used either 1/4” or Lemo. I expect far more reliable contact from RJ preloaded contact springs compared to 3.5mm, which are noisy when disturbed even when new.

You could use 4P4C, the handset connector, instead of RJ11/6P4C, the phone line connector. Reasonably common, and no risk of ever plugging in a phone line.

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#79

Post by stephen_g »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #65
dusted wrote: post #44

I find myself guilty of deep-diving into headfi-territory audiophilia once in a while, this time it got to me as well and I started thinking how neat it'd be to finally do it and get some high-end replacement for my 250 ohm dt990 pro cans, and I've heard both the hifman arya and sennheiser hd800s and know they are quite a lot better.. but THEN comes the amp question... and the rabbithole deepens.. and then the DAC an…

If you would just commit all the way and get an atomic clock you could save yourself from the tyranny of jitter in the 1MHz audio band and then it'd all be worth it.

There are chip-scale atomic clocks now for only a few hundred dollars. As ridiculous and unnecessary as it is, it could totally be used as a clock for a DAC!

Re: Headphone and Amp Impedance (2011)

#80

Post by lb1lf »

snvzz wrote: post #70
Aurornis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but THEN comes the amp question... and the rabbithole deepens.. and then the DAC and in the end I give up, every time.. Well I have some great news for you! In 2024, you don’t need to spend mega bucks to get a good DAC or amp. You might not need one at all! One of the better performing and measuring DACs out there right now is the $9 Apple USB-C dongle: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/r..…

>One of the better performing and measuring DACs out there right now is the $9 Apple USB-C dongle: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/r ... Shows how bad the entire industry is. Especially on the DAC side. Lots of snake oil that measures worse than very cheap solutions. In practice, the amplifier matters more, and there the Apple dongle doesn't do so well.

> Especially on the DAC side. Lots of snake oil that measures worse than very cheap solutions.

-Which, cynically speaking, is really a requirement. After all, many manufacturers of such gear claim a 'house sound' - but how do you differentiate between sonically transparent gear?

You don't. Hence you need to add some imperfection to the sound in order to claim an (audible) edge over others.

Or, as (signal processing major) me liked to quip to audiophile friends - "Tube sound? Tube sound can be DSP'd!

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