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Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

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Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#41
post #18

Now make a bookmark and check back in 5 years. What will happen: prices in Berkeley will go in lockstep with other areas around it (likely way up). Meanwhile, congestion will worsen and crime will also likely rise.

Rent will go down which will reduce suffering. Look at changes in rent in Austin vs San Francisco. One builds and the other doesn't.

Austin has infinite land and equally infinite highways/pavement/traffic.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#42

I’m still shocked by the notion that a highly dense population is inherently good. Pollution increases, energy requirements increase, crime per-capita increases, babies per-capita tend to decrease, time spent in traffic or commuting increases, space per person decreases. I get that you get more food or entertainment options, but in general it doesn’t appear that increasing density actually improves quality of life. T…

Have you considered that density needs to be increased not to provide you with low pollution, low crime, a short commute, food or entertainment options, but instead so that people aren’t forced to live on the street?

Isn’t that logic backwards? It’s only higher-density areas that have significant numbers of people living on the streets.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent will go down which will reduce suffering. Look at changes in rent in Austin vs San Francisco. One builds and the other doesn't.

Austin has infinite land and equally infinite highways/pavement/traffic.

Which is not to say SF shouldn’t build, but Austin is not a useful model.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#44
post #33
post #3

Wouldn’t the residents revolt as it could bring their house prices down

I don't know if things work the same way in California as they do up here in Washington, but up here I see a large number of complaints from current home owners about rising house prices. That's because rising house prices means rising property taxes.

California loves its Reagan era laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#45
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if things work the same way in California as they do up here in Washington, but up here I see a large number of complaints from current home owners about rising house prices. That's because rising house prices means rising property taxes.

Unfortunately prop 13 broke that dynamic, among other ill effects.

My neighbors bought their house in 1975, pay $3k in property taxes. I pay 9k in property taxes. If I bought today I'd pay 17k.

I will not get a larger house because my property taxes would triple if I wanted another bedroom. A marginally larger house is not worth the marginal cost to move.

And with my 2.8% refinanced mortgage and 60% equity, and current rates today, there's no chance I'd sell.

It's a dream of mine to build a custom home, I can afford it, but I'm not willing to put up with a multi year struggle to get a house approved.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#46

I’m still shocked by the notion that a highly dense population is inherently good. Pollution increases, energy requirements increase, crime per-capita increases, babies per-capita tend to decrease, time spent in traffic or commuting increases, space per person decreases. I get that you get more food or entertainment options, but in general it doesn’t appear that increasing density actually improves quality of life. T…

> crime per-capita increases

I learned this right here on HN! How silly is it that most any statistic talking about behaviors of populations are nothing more than population-density graphs.

"Where's all the crime!?" Sure enough it's where all the people are.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#47
post #18

Now make a bookmark and check back in 5 years. What will happen: prices in Berkeley will go in lockstep with other areas around it (likely way up). Meanwhile, congestion will worsen and crime will also likely rise.

cyberax! YOU LIVE FOR THIS "against urban cities" battle. Hi again wave

I'm the bicycle commuter dude who likes walkable and dense cities. Of course course I want just enough of my own private solitude to retreat to as well. But sign me up for density!

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#48

I’m still shocked by the notion that a highly dense population is inherently good. Pollution increases, energy requirements increase, crime per-capita increases, babies per-capita tend to decrease, time spent in traffic or commuting increases, space per person decreases. I get that you get more food or entertainment options, but in general it doesn’t appear that increasing density actually improves quality of life. T…

> Pollution increases, energy requirements increase

The lowest carbon emissions and least pollution per capita are in city centers. Also the lowest water usage per capita.

> crime per-capita increases

This is not a map of population density, https://vividmaps.com/dangerous-us-counties/

> babies per-capita tend to decrease

I keep hearing people say it's too expensive to have kids. Maybe lower housing prices would help.

> time spent in traffic or commuting increases

Housing closer to jobs makes commutes shorter.

> space per person decreases

You got me. I don't have to pay for more house than I want.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a real danger lurking among the zoning reform efforts we are seeing all over the english-speaking world. There are so many levers baked into the zoning code to prevent development that it's easy to produce a policy that appears to unwind the restrictions without actually permitting any real progress. My city upzoned the entire city from 1 to 3 units per lot across the whole city a few years ago, which is grea…

I know I said this in another thread but all zoning reform should really be coupled with a Land Value Tax That would encourage development and encourage making additional reforms to accommodate any unseen / unaddressed issues with the reform

But we just saw that when zoning goes up against financial incentives, zoning wins. Why would more financial incentives help when you can't build anyway?

Seems like magical thinking.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#50
post #4

> In the 1970s, left-wing activists opposed the construction of dingbat apartments and allied with liberal homeowners to pass the Neighborhood Preservation Ordinance (NPO), which effectively finished off housing construction in the city I am not surprised.

> In the 1970s, left-wing activists opposed the construction of dingbat apartments and allied with liberal homeowners to pass the Neighborhood Preservation Ordinance (NPO), which effectively finished off housing construction in the city Short of sleazebag propaganda, there is no logic or context, historical or otherwise, that can justify describing this as "left wing." They are right wing activists by definition. I d…

There was a major environmentalist and neighborhood preservationist movement in California during the 1960s and 1970s that helped fuel anti-growth measures. While they weren't strictly leftist (there are right-wing slow- and anti-growth advocates), they did complement the views of the New Left, which embraced environmentalism and came out of the counter-cultural movement of the 1960s. The San Francisco freeway revolts of 1959 and 1964 were early examples of this (https://www.cahighways.org/maps-sf-fwy.html). Consider folk songs like "Big Yellow Taxi" (1970) from Joni Mitchell with the famous lyrics "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot." Such sentiments resonated among many Californians and was especially popular along the coast. These sentiments helped lead to anti-growth measures taking effect throughout the state, especially in the coastal areas. For example, San Jose during the 1950s and 1960s undergone a campaign of dramatic expansion throughout Santa Clara Valley, even reaching Coyote Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._P._Hamann), but this growth was curtailed in the 1970s and San Jose has not expanded beyond its boundaries. Santa Cruz also took on an anti-growth attitude in the 1970s.

While not all anti-growth sentiment is left-wing (there are some right-leaning areas of California, particularly in the Central Valley and the Sierra Nevada foothills, that also have slow-growth or no-growth policies for maintaining "quality of life" and "rural character"), much of the anti-growth sentiment along the coast traditionally had an environmentalist and grassroots community preservationist flavor to it, with opposition to "developers" who threaten it.

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