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Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

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Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#21

Post by marxisttemp »

lettergram wrote: post #20

I’m still shocked by the notion that a highly dense population is inherently good. Pollution increases, energy requirements increase, crime per-capita increases, babies per-capita tend to decrease, time spent in traffic or commuting increases, space per person decreases. I get that you get more food or entertainment options, but in general it doesn’t appear that increasing density actually improves quality of life. T…

Have you considered that density needs to be increased not to provide you with low pollution, low crime, a short commute, food or entertainment options, but instead so that people aren’t forced to live on the street?

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#22

Post by CydeWeys »

cyberax wrote: post #17
BirdieNZ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upzoning increases land prices. It only results in a decrease in per-unit average house prices if it is accompanied with development (more housing units per square metre of land). Upzoning doesn't guarantee increased development as developers only build when it makes financial sense to do so, and flooding the market with more units would decrease the potential profit they can make. Existing residents who don't develo…

> It only results in a decrease in per-unit average house prices It never does. Upzoning does NOT reduce per-unit prices, but it certainly increases everyone's misery.

Ah yes, real estate prices are famously low in the most upzoned parts of the country (Manhattan).

If you can build a 100 floor skyscraper on a piece of land, that land is insanely valuable!

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#23

Post by kasey_junk »

cyberax wrote: post #17
BirdieNZ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upzoning increases land prices. It only results in a decrease in per-unit average house prices if it is accompanied with development (more housing units per square metre of land). Upzoning doesn't guarantee increased development as developers only build when it makes financial sense to do so, and flooding the market with more units would decrease the potential profit they can make. Existing residents who don't develo…

> It only results in a decrease in per-unit average house prices It never does. Upzoning does NOT reduce per-unit prices, but it certainly increases everyone's misery.

Do you have a single data point to back up your assertion? Because the places I’ve seen that have embraced upzoning seem to be counter your assertion https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/...

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#24

Post by earthwalker99 »

tekla wrote: post #4

> In the 1970s, left-wing activists opposed the construction of dingbat apartments and allied with liberal homeowners to pass the Neighborhood Preservation Ordinance (NPO), which effectively finished off housing construction in the city I am not surprised.

>In the 1970s, left-wing activists opposed the construction of dingbat apartments and allied with liberal homeowners to pass the Neighborhood Preservation Ordinance (NPO), which effectively finished off housing construction in the city

Short of sleazebag propaganda, there is no logic or context, historical or otherwise, that can justify describing this as "left wing." They are right wing activists by definition. I don't care what they call themselves.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#25

Post by rottencupcakes »

cyberax wrote: post #18

Now make a bookmark and check back in 5 years. What will happen: prices in Berkeley will go in lockstep with other areas around it (likely way up). Meanwhile, congestion will worsen and crime will also likely rise.

You are likely correct.

This is because the Bay Area is a highly desirable place to live and will continue to get more so as climate change gets worse but the Bay Area stays gorgeous.

Crime is a problem to solve in any Western urban area and is particularly bad here now. Congestion is another problem to solve.

Manhattan has solved both to a degree. I’d imagine we can too.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#27

Post by bakchodi »

earthwalker99 wrote: post #24
tekla wrote: post #4

> In the 1970s, left-wing activists opposed the construction of dingbat apartments and allied with liberal homeowners to pass the Neighborhood Preservation Ordinance (NPO), which effectively finished off housing construction in the city I am not surprised.

> In the 1970s, left-wing activists opposed the construction of dingbat apartments and allied with liberal homeowners to pass the Neighborhood Preservation Ordinance (NPO), which effectively finished off housing construction in the city Short of sleazebag propaganda, there is no logic or context, historical or otherwise, that can justify describing this as "left wing." They are right wing activists by definition. I d…

[dead]

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#28

Post by TaylorAlexander »

causality0 wrote: post #7

Each home only getting twelve percent of an acre qualifies as "exclusionary housing only for rich people"? Just how insane is the cost of living in Berkeley?

> Just how insane is the cost of living in Berkeley?

It’s very high.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#29

Post by ozzydave »

cyberax wrote: post #17
BirdieNZ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upzoning increases land prices. It only results in a decrease in per-unit average house prices if it is accompanied with development (more housing units per square metre of land). Upzoning doesn't guarantee increased development as developers only build when it makes financial sense to do so, and flooding the market with more units would decrease the potential profit they can make. Existing residents who don't develo…

> It only results in a decrease in per-unit average house prices It never does. Upzoning does NOT reduce per-unit prices, but it certainly increases everyone's misery.

I live on a street in Berkeley that was not red-lined, so it has single family homes and fourplexes. It’s great, we love it. You can choose to be miserable but it’s got nothing to do with whether your neighbors can afford a home.

Re: Berkeley's upzoning would be among nation's largest

#30

Post by kevinburke »

cyberax wrote: post #18

Now make a bookmark and check back in 5 years. What will happen: prices in Berkeley will go in lockstep with other areas around it (likely way up). Meanwhile, congestion will worsen and crime will also likely rise.

In reality rents in Berkeley have been falling for several years because the city has added a lot more new housing over the past few years. https://twitter.com/Jeffinatorator/status/173039356154234085...

Congestion may get worse in some places but the status quo is people commuting from places like Antioch to get to service jobs in Berkeley/Oakland/SF so from a "vehicle miles traveled" perspective it might get better.

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