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Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

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Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no thanks, not interested in your american nonsense laws. lecturing people who are asking SOMEONE ELSE a question is a terrible personality trait btw

181 out of 195 countries and counting! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention Look at that map! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Berne_Co... P.S. Berne doesn't sound like a very American name. You would really learn a lot from reading Groklaw. Of course, I can't make you. Good luck in the world though!

man, you really are putting a lot of effort into justifying stealing other people's content

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

181 out of 195 countries and counting! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention Look at that map! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Berne_Co... P.S. Berne doesn't sound like a very American name. You would really learn a lot from reading Groklaw. Of course, I can't make you. Good luck in the world though!

man, you really are putting a lot of effort into justifying stealing other people's content

Thanks for such great opportunities to post educational content to Hacker News! I genuinely hope some things go your way, man. Rooting for you. Go get 'em.

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can’t undermine someone’s argument, undermine their nationality. American tech culture doesn’t do this as much as it should, perhaps because we know eventually those folks wake up.

Not sure what your point is, but why would i care to learn about the laws of some other dude's country that he's using to support his bizarro arguments?

> why would i care to learn about the laws of some other dude's country

The website you're attempting to police other people's behavior on is hosted in the country you're complaining about. Lol.

Maybe there is a website local to your country where your ideas would be better received?

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#254
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It whiffed multiple common softballs I must have missed this in the article. Where was this?

...It's in the comment you were responding to. Directly above the section you quoted.

I understand that, but it wasn't clear to me where those examples came from.

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the MIME type of a .tar file; and what are the MIME types of the constituent concatenated files within an archive format like e.g. tar? hachoir/subfile/main.py: https://github.com/vstinner/hachoir/blob/main/hachoir/subfil... File signature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_signature PhotoRec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoRec "File Format Gallery for Kaitai Struct"; 185+ binary file format specificatio…

I’m not sure what this comment is trying to say

File-based hashing is done is so many places, there's so much heat.

Sub- file-based hashing with feature engineering is necessary for AV, which must take packing, obfuscating, loading, and dynamic analysis into account in addition to zip archives and magic file numbers.

AV AntiVirus applications with LLMs: what do you train it on, what are some of the existing signature databases.

https://SigStore.dev/ (The Linux Foundation) also has a hash-file inverted index for released artifacts.

Also otoh with a time limit,

1. What file is this? Dirname, basename, hashes(s)

2. Is it supposed to be installed at such path?

3. Per it's header, is the file an archive or an image or a document?

4. What file(s) and records and fields are packed into a file, and what transforms were the data transformed with?

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#256
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are only soft to a human. I looked at a couple and I picked them correctly but I don't know what details the classifier was seeing which I was blind to. Not to say it was correct, just that we can't call them soft just because they're short and easy for a human. > The bar is the file utility. It has higher accuracy than that. You would reject it just because the failures are different even though they're less?

Yes. Unpredictable failures are significantly worse than predictable ones. If file messes up, it's because it decided a ZIP-based document was a generic ZIP file. If Magika messes up, it's entirely random. I can work around file's failure modes, especially if it's one I work with often. Magika's failure modes strike at random and are not possible to anticipate. File also bails out when it doesn't know, a very common…

Your original statement was that having a couple of failures brings into question its claims about performance. It doesn't because it doesn't claim such high performance. 99.31% is lower than perhaps 997 out of 1000 or whatever the GP tested. Of course having unpredictable failures is a worry but it's a different worry.

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#257
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Unpredictable failures are significantly worse than predictable ones. If file messes up, it's because it decided a ZIP-based document was a generic ZIP file. If Magika messes up, it's entirely random. I can work around file's failure modes, especially if it's one I work with often. Magika's failure modes strike at random and are not possible to anticipate. File also bails out when it doesn't know, a very common…

Your original statement was that having a couple of failures brings into question its claims about performance. It doesn't because it doesn't claim such high performance. 99.31% is lower than perhaps 997 out of 1000 or whatever the GP tested. Of course having unpredictable failures is a worry but it's a different worry.

They uploaded 3 sample files for the authors, there were more failures than that, and the failures that GP and others have experienced are of a less tolerable nature. This is the point I was making, that the value added by classifying files with no rigid structure is offset heavily by its unpredictable shortcomings and difficult-to-detect failure modes.

If you have a point of your own to make I'd prefer you jump to it. Nitpicking baseless assumptions like how many files the evil GP had to sift through in order to breathlessly bring us 3 bad eggs is not something I find worthwhile.

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#258

So instead of spending some of their human resources to improve libmagic, they used some of their computing power to create an "open source" neural net, which is technically more accurate than the "error-prone" hand-written rules (ignoring that it supports far fewer filetypes), and which is much less effective in an adversarial context, and they want it to "help other software improve their file identification accura…

>So instead of spending some of their human resources to improve libmagic A large megacorp can work on multiple things at once. >an "open source" neural net, which is technically more accurate than the "error-prone" hand-written rules (ignoring that it supports far fewer filetypes) You say that like it's a contradiction but it's not. >and which is much less effective in an adversarial context, Is it? This seems like…

> > an "open source" neural net, which is technically more accurate than the "error-prone" hand-written rules (ignoring that it supports far fewer filetypes)

> You say that like it's a contradiction but it's not.

> > and they want it to "help other software improve their file identification accuracy," which of course it can't since neural nets aren't introspectable.

> Being introspectable or not has no bearing on the accuracy of a system.

"Open source" and "neural net" is the contradiction, as I went on to write. Even if magika were a more accurate version of file, the implication that it could "help [libmagic] improve" isn't really true, because how do you distill the knowledge from it into a patch for libmagic?

My point re: their "error-prone" claim is that their comparison was disingenuous due to the functionality difference between the tools. (Also with their implication that AIs work perfectly, though this one sounds pretty good by the numbers. I of course accept that there's likely to be some bugs in code written by humans.)

> > and which is much less effective in an adversarial context,

> Is it? This seems like an assumption.

It is, one based on what I've heard about AI classifiers over the years. Other commenters here are interested in this point, but while I don't see anyone experimenting on magika (it's new after all), the fact it's not mentioned in the article leads me to believe they didn't try to attack themselves. (Or did, but with bad results, and so decided not to include that. Funnily enough they did mention adversarial attacks on manually-written classifiers...)

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#259
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...It's in the comment you were responding to. Directly above the section you quoted.

I understand that, but it wasn't clear to me where those examples came from.

It's pretty obvious from the whole comment that they're his own experience. Are you going anywhere with this or are you just saying things?

Re: Magika: AI powered fast and efficient file type identification

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This a 1mb Keras ML model that’s open source. I passionately dislike Surveillance Capitalism but bringing it up when it’s completely irrelevant only weakens the argument. RTFA.

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that". From the HN guidelines

> can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

I shortened it to RTFA.

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