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The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

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Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#41

Post by [deleted] »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #12
Aachen wrote: post #4

European here. What kind of legal structure is tribe in this context? > “We, as the Ute Mountain Ute tribe, had been a fossil fuel tribe with oil and gas for a long time, probably over 50 years. Today, with the changes in legislation, global warming, and climate change, you can see the impact of what's happening to our world. I think I only ever heard tribe used to describe a group or maybe 10-30 hunter-gatherers, or…

Does it matter if this group of people refers to itself as a “tribe” or a “nation” or something else? If they started referring to themselves as a “nation” for example, would anything change. In any case, it’s quite common in the US for groups like this to be referred to as a “tribe”. I guess today you’re one of the lucky 10,000.

[deleted]

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#43

Post by [deleted] »

loeg wrote: post #28
Matthew_Stevens wrote: post #21

Figured this out because I was curious- This would makeup about .17% of total US electricity consumption in 2022. Assuming 4 trillion kWh. https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/use-of-elect... .

Also for context, the quoted 756MW figure is about 68% of a single AP1000 reactor.

[deleted]

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#44

Post by thfuran »

appplication wrote: post #35
hooo wrote: post #8

Does anyone have a breakdown of the materials required to create 2.2 million solar panels? I worry that we measure solar strictly on the carbon emissions and not the full environmental impact -- such as that of land and mining of materials. Edit: I'm not advocating fossil fuels. I think solar makes a ton of sense, but it also seems crazy to think we could build enough solar + storage capacity for the world. Nuclear e…

I’m not suggesting you did this intentionally, because this sort of stuff is difficult to really know or find definitive answers to. But I think it’s worth being aware that, in general, an over-focus on material cost for creating renewables etc is typically a conservative talking point and recommendation towards maintenance of the fossil fuel status quo. It appeals in particular to logical, skeptical folks like many…

But as I understand it, the cloth bags generally do lose out unless used hundreds of times, which is plausible but hardly a given. And the plastic bags are often re-used as small garbage bags, so eliminating them frequently just means someone is going to buy another plastic bag.

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#45

Post by hooo »

dangrossman wrote: post #38
hooo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against solar. I think a seriously massive nuclear build up makes sense. To the extent you get economies of scale and not every project is a bespoke effort.

That's financially and politically impossible on a relevant time scale, while solar can be built now.

It'll become politically inevitable as this climate catastrophe proceeds.

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#46

Post by nerdponx »

Aachen wrote: post #4

European here. What kind of legal structure is tribe in this context? > “We, as the Ute Mountain Ute tribe, had been a fossil fuel tribe with oil and gas for a long time, probably over 50 years. Today, with the changes in legislation, global warming, and climate change, you can see the impact of what's happening to our world. I think I only ever heard tribe used to describe a group or maybe 10-30 hunter-gatherers, or…

In this case I think the word "tribe" is referring to the Ute Mountain sub-group of the Ute people.

But it's certainly nothing like the primitive society you are imagining, and that's partly why I think a lot of American Indian nations don't use that word to describe themselves.

For example, the "Seneca tribe" calls themselves the Seneca Nation. That is, they were and are a group of people sharing common ethnicity, culture, language, and some kind of governmental organization across their territory, which at one point covered a large portion of what is now western New York state. They lived in towns with palisade walls and farmed several crops. They interacted with other nations in a complicated geopolitical system involving trade, alliance, and war. It's a far cry from the image of dumb savages in crude huts.

In the USA today, American Indian nations are essentially sovereign nations, and have some of their own territory in areas called reservations. So that's what we are talking about here: the actions of a sovereign nation, with its own government and geographical territory.

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#47

Post by photochemsyn »

loeg wrote: post #15

It's unclear how they will finance this $1B project or who they will sell the juice to. Is the tribe getting suckered into a bad deal?

The financial outfit behind it seems to have a decent track record with smaller projects around the world:

https://energypeople.com/news/story/green-returns-for-green-...

They also state that they're interested in developing hydrogen and ammonia production capability using the electricity produced, rather than selling it to the grid, but building such production facilities would increase up-front costs by several billion.

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#48

Post by loeg »

kitten_mittens_ wrote: post #32
loeg wrote: post #15

It's unclear how they will finance this $1B project or who they will sell the juice to. Is the tribe getting suckered into a bad deal?

> who...will they sell the juice to? Utah is already a power exporter. Utah generates about one-fifth more electricity than it consumes, and the state is a net supplier of power to other states.[1] [1] https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php?sid=UT

This tribe is in Colorado, not Utah, despite the name.

Transmission is expensive; you'd rather sell locally. Before you finance a $1B project it would be good to have a sense of how you expect to sell the outputs!

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#49

Post by loeg »

photochemsyn wrote: post #47
loeg wrote: post #15

It's unclear how they will finance this $1B project or who they will sell the juice to. Is the tribe getting suckered into a bad deal?

The financial outfit behind it seems to have a decent track record with smaller projects around the world: https://energypeople.com/news/story/green-returns-for-green-... They also state that they're interested in developing hydrogen and ammonia production capability using the electricity produced, rather than selling it to the grid, but building such production facilities would increase up-front costs by several bil…

Thanks! I'd be interested in hearing more about the specific terms and sources of capital for this project, if you know.

Re: The Ute Tribe will construct one of the largest solar farms in the US

#50

Post by aunetx »

hooo wrote: post #8

Does anyone have a breakdown of the materials required to create 2.2 million solar panels? I worry that we measure solar strictly on the carbon emissions and not the full environmental impact -- such as that of land and mining of materials. Edit: I'm not advocating fossil fuels. I think solar makes a ton of sense, but it also seems crazy to think we could build enough solar + storage capacity for the world. Nuclear e…

If you can understand French or don't mind subtitles, I advise you very strongly to listen the interview Aurore Stéphant gave on the Thinkerview some months ago.

Contrary to what other might be saying, that's not a question we can avoid asking, as there is a physical realities behind the ideal of switching to a fully decarbonated and decentralised grid... Even though that's basically the only thing we can do to keep existing as a specie.

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