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The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

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Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#122
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but in the end, the main question for the court will be whether or not Samsung has used all of these elements in a way that's likely to confuse consumers about what they're buying. How can consumers be confused about what they're buying? Even if their software appears similar, one device has a large Apple logo on the back and is sold almost entirely through a different retail chain.

You'd be surprised what consumers can mistake a product for. In many people's eyes, iPhone == smartphone. It'd be a relatively simple mistake to make if you are a elderly non-techie.

So, if they ended up buying an android phone, does that really count as a mistake? After all, they didnt really want an iPhone, they wanted a smartphone, and that is what they got.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#123
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk about cognitive dissonance. I see close to a 500ms lag on your homescreen swipes. Here's a screenshot I took of your video at second 7: http://f.cl.ly/items/2Q2o1n3o1V252e0g3i0e/007.jpg Note where your finger is in that shot. It has already lost contact with the screen after the swiping motion. Meanwhile the screen hasn't even begun transitioning. This may not bother you. But let's not pretend the latency doesn'…

There where a few mis-swipes because of the way i was filming/holding the phone, not only that but I have a lot of widgets, which add to the latency of home switching, which you can tell the difference when I'm switching in the app drawer. Also that isn't a low quality youtube video, it was filmed at 1080p. Finally Gigaom is an Apple news site/blog not exactly the place one would go to get unbiased news/reports.

There where a few mis-swipes because of the way i was filming/holding the phone

The screenshot is not from a mis-swipe. Your phone did react - it just took long enough for me to press pause (on a video that was playing realtime!) and take a screenshot.

you can tell the difference when I'm switching in the app drawer

Well, at least we're making progress and you're acknowledging the problem now.

Finally Gigaom is an Apple news site/blog not exactly the place one would go to get unbiased news/reports.

Grasping straws now?

The issue is widely documented (the GigaOM article contains sources). And the video is pretty self-evident anyway, unless you want to allege them of faking it.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#124
post #117
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole point! The S and the SII weren't 'vaguely similar' to the iPhone, they were almost identical.

That's very much incorrect. The SII doesn't remotely look than an iPhone 4, except both are squared... different COLOR, different SIZE, different BUTTONS...

Both are offered in black and white. Although the SII was bigger the aesthetic is practically identical. You can say that you disagree, but to suggest my statement is very much incorrect is off the mark.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in the end, the main question for the court will be whether or not Samsung has used all of these elements in a way that's likely to confuse consumers about what they're buying. I don't believe design patents hinge on whether the consumer would be confused; that's for trademarks . Design patents are for protecting the aesthetic idea, just like regular patents are for protecting a technological idea.

The article talks about both trade dress and design patents. That said a court's decision about design patents can involve whether a consumer would be confused. There's a short article that talks about the legal rules for design patent infringement at http://www.designpatentschool.com/assets/Oake_SEPT11%20V2.pd... .

Very interesting. What's the legal theory behind this? Shouldn't trademark infringement protect against consumer confusion?

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#126
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be right, but it wasn't "similar" design. They weren't sued because it was a black rectangle. This is closer to flipping the Pepsi logo upside-down and selling cola, then bitching about how unfair the patent and trademark system is.

The iPhone's design is mostly functional, it's not artwork like a logo. You can't copy a logo for clear reasons. A closer analog would be selling, say, a cola in a 12 oz. blue, red and white can with white lettering: http://goo.gl/q5k8n

Well, it sort of is like artwork since they registered the design patent. At a glance, the RC Cola can doesn't look like Pepsi. Some of the Samsung phones do however look like iPhones, and infringe on all of the conditions mentioned in the patent.

This case mirrors the eMachines case where they were selling something that looked pretty similar to an iMac.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#127
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone's design is mostly functional, it's not artwork like a logo. You can't copy a logo for clear reasons. A closer analog would be selling, say, a cola in a 12 oz. blue, red and white can with white lettering: http://goo.gl/q5k8n

Well, it sort of is like artwork since they registered the design patent. At a glance, the RC Cola can doesn't look like Pepsi. Some of the Samsung phones do however look like iPhones, and infringe on all of the conditions mentioned in the patent. This case mirrors the eMachines case where they were selling something that looked pretty similar to an iMac.

"sort of is like artwork" isn't artwork.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#128
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patents have been around for centuries and they exist to provide incentive for people to advance society. Sure innovation might continue without them, but likely at a much slower rate. I'm not a fan of the current state of the patent system, but patents do have their place.

False. Innovation would speed up by magnitudes because we'd finally be able to do incremental development off each other's discoveries. It would foster a society where exchange of information would be a given, instead of suing each other over what amounts to a piece of paper. Oh, and if you'd take a look at the history of patents, then you'd realize that since their inception, they have done all but progressed innova…

You're thinking too short term. The question isn't whether or not Watt's patent hindered steam engines for three decades, but whether or not the steam engine would have been developed at all in those three decades. The benefit for society is delayed so that inventors can be compensated. The only mechanism that is available to gov't to compensate an inventor is to grant a temporary monopoly. That was the market can decide on the value of the invention.

Here's another example. Imagine a miracle drug was discovered to cure disease X. $100M went into the development for this drug. Now imagine that it took 10 years of development but would have taken 30 years for public sponsored research to develop otherwise. Now, the public gets a new drug 20 years earlier than they otherwise would have. The pharma company gets 10 years to recoup its $100M investment, but at the end of the patent term, there is now a low cost generic version available.

So with public funding, the new drug appears at t+30 years. With private/patent incentive based funding the public gets access at t+10 years and generic/cheap access at t+20 years. I think that strikes a fair balance.

Where the patent system starts to break down is when the monopoly length is grossly over the amount of time it would take an independent person to also develop the invention (software for example moves too quickly for this to be effective).

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#129
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There where a few mis-swipes because of the way i was filming/holding the phone, not only that but I have a lot of widgets, which add to the latency of home switching, which you can tell the difference when I'm switching in the app drawer. Also that isn't a low quality youtube video, it was filmed at 1080p. Finally Gigaom is an Apple news site/blog not exactly the place one would go to get unbiased news/reports.

There where a few mis-swipes because of the way i was filming/holding the phone The screenshot is not from a mis-swipe. Your phone did react - it just took long enough for me to press pause (on a video that was playing realtime!) and take a screenshot. you can tell the difference when I'm switching in the app drawer Well, at least we're making progress and you're acknowledging the problem now. Finally Gigaom is an Ap…

At this point I think you are either very biased or . Here is what The Verge had to say about HTC One X with ICS -

        "I can't lodge a single complaint about the One X's performance, though — this phone screams, and it has the benchmark scores to back it up. I used the phone as my primary device for a full week and can't recall a single incidence of lag or stutter anywhere in the user interface. That's saying something, because Android phones that initially appear to be fast have a tendency to "bog down" over time and during certain operations like app updates and account syncs, but not the One X — it was smooth sailing at all times."
I am sure you can find something laggy if you keep looking for it - you can buy the most lacking Android device and then complain about it all you want - but newer flagship Android devices have pretty much eliminated the lag issues with OS and Hardware assistance (Tegra3 has direct touch for e.g. and even Gruber found ICS much nicer!).

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. Innovation would speed up by magnitudes because we'd finally be able to do incremental development off each other's discoveries. It would foster a society where exchange of information would be a given, instead of suing each other over what amounts to a piece of paper. Oh, and if you'd take a look at the history of patents, then you'd realize that since their inception, they have done all but progressed innova…

You're thinking too short term. The question isn't whether or not Watt's patent hindered steam engines for three decades, but whether or not the steam engine would have been developed at all in those three decades. The benefit for society is delayed so that inventors can be compensated. The only mechanism that is available to gov't to compensate an inventor is to grant a temporary monopoly. That was the market can de…

>software for example moves too quickly for this to be effective.

It's not just software. Progress as a whole is moving way too fast to justify ANY temporal monopolies over inventions. The curve of technological advancement is probably roughly exponential. The more we discover, the faster we can discover more things. We're sacrificing the advancement of the entirety of mankind for the profit of a few corporations.

>The only mechanism that is available to gov't to compensate an inventor is to grant a temporary monopoly.

Utterly wrong. A lot of research (including the worst example, the pharma industry) is funded directly or indirectly by the government, full or in part. Quite a lot of research is done by universities in cooperation with the industry. It's nonsense to imply that patents are the only viable solutions. They aren't, and they are probably the worst solution anybody could come up with. They are a crutch and an impediment to mankind as a whole.

On your miracle drug: highly contrived example. Most pharma research is, at least in good part, funded by the public through the government. In addition, a very large part of the cost of a drug is marketing. Yes, that's right - the pharma industry spends billions on ads.

In addition, this model is fundamentally flawed. It's a lot more profitable to develop treatments (for symptoms etc) than it is to develop cures. I'd wager that without this nonsensical system, we could already have a solution to AIDS and severely reduced the lethality of cancer.

Also, I do not care how many billions went into the development of a drug. A human life is infinitely worth more than that. I get sick when I see corporations whining about their "intellectual property getting stolen" when developing countries decide to produce generic clones to save human lives, like recently the case in India.

Again, I simply reject the notion that there needs to (and in fact, that there can) be any sort of artificial monopolies or other forms of ownership over inventions and technologies. By getting rid of this paradoxical and, frankly, unethical system, we would gain a monumental speed-up in technological progress. I postulate we could be colonizing the solar system by now if we'd never allowed this system to emerge.

As a final note, it's funny how you accuse me of thinking in the short term - that couldn't be any more wrong. If anything, I fight for the prolonged future of humanity, decades and centuries from now. The patent system is utterly unsustainable in light of this.

People will eventually look back at this system and ask themselves how we could ever allow ownership over abstract concepts. They will shake their heads at the notion of intellectual property while freely accessing, using and improving upon the shared heritage of all mankind. I hope this day isn't far away - it can't come fast enough.

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