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It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#111

Post by chii »

anon373839 wrote: post #14

> It’s telling that this is the feature that Apple refused to share. And it makes sense: the idea that users could install safe and secure apps that Apple can’t tax, block or control is terrifying to them. I think that’s what this decision is all about. When Safari was the only browser engine on iOS, PWAs didn’t threaten the App Store because Safari delivers a degraded experience with them. With alternative browser e…

> I think Apple did not want to risk letting that happen.

they've already shown a shadow of their true colors when they banned flash under the guise of security (which is also a problem, but for which apple conveniently uses as an excuse).

This is their true intention. The app store and the easy revenue from those sales are just not something they'll willingly give up.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#112

Post by wiseowise »

neximo64 wrote: post #68
lozenge wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean just adding an improved notification API, I mean they could literally allow access to the entire SwiftUI and all other iOS APIs from the web. Heck, they could allow PWAs to run in Objective-C instead of JavaScript. At that point it would be indistinguishable from a native app, except that it would not be beholden to Apple's policies like Core Technology Fee, notarisation, payment scare screens, etc ( htt…

You can use web notifications, and you can compile Objective C to webassembly. You're also able to use apple pay. Everything you've mentioned has a workaround. I'm really getting at how PWAs are basically something most people wouldn't use, not because they're missing APIs but because they're just a terrible experience and difficult to install and use. If its Apple that is holding back PWAs so much, its not that they…

> And then to extend the argument further, "App Clips" or "Instant Apps" aren't much success either from an adoption perspective, despite having full access to the APIs native apps have.

They never had full access to the APIs native apps have, what are you talking about? Last time I tried to develop instant app on Android (and that was like 4(?) years ago), it didn't have access to network interfaces or something like that. It was a great idea on paper, but terrible in execution.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#113

Post by twobitshifter »

throwaway49849 wrote: post #23
pas wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you please elaborate on how/what the Vision Pro contributes to this problem?

The AVP is one of the most out of touch products I've ever seen from a respected brand, and I can almost hear Steve Job's scathing criticisms of it, based on everything I know about him. Not to mention, it goes against the increasing trend of less screens and less tech. The fact that it got made and is being pushed so hard as the next step in computing, is bonkers. So to me, it contributes because it is another data…

Here is Steve wanting headphones for video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W8HjoBL5fbU

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#114

Post by lesuorac »

chii wrote: post #111
anon373839 wrote: post #14

> It’s telling that this is the feature that Apple refused to share. And it makes sense: the idea that users could install safe and secure apps that Apple can’t tax, block or control is terrifying to them. I think that’s what this decision is all about. When Safari was the only browser engine on iOS, PWAs didn’t threaten the App Store because Safari delivers a degraded experience with them. With alternative browser e…

> I think Apple did not want to risk letting that happen. they've already shown a shadow of their true colors when they banned flash under the guise of security (which is also a problem, but for which apple conveniently uses as an excuse). This is their true intention. The app store and the easy revenue from those sales are just not something they'll willingly give up.

Loosen up that tinfoil hat.

Apple banned flash when web apps were the _only_ apps on the iphone (besides the preloaded apps). The App Store [1] is ~18 months after the iPhone [2] was released.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(Apple)

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#115

Post by wiseowise »

monkin wrote: post #101
bambax wrote: post #76

I made the mistake of only carrying an iPad during my most recent holidays. What a useless piece of junk this is. iPads work well enough at home to watch movies or play a couple of games, but trying to do any kind of serious work on them, either editing photos, writing something, sending files, even trying to use a sequencer is an exercise in frustration. We are sooo lucky there (still) exist alternative computing so…

You can code on it, design, edit photos, write books, sketch, edit videos... and a lot more with ease. For 3 years, I used only an iPad for work. Can you expand on your problems? Or was that a "it works differently on my beloved OS" kind of thing?

> You can code on it

In castrated terminal that is walking on the edge of what is "permitted" by overlords.

Or are you talking about open thin IDE that connects to a remote machine in a browser?

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#116

Post by wiseowise »

Always42 wrote: post #102
bambax wrote: post #76

I made the mistake of only carrying an iPad during my most recent holidays. What a useless piece of junk this is. iPads work well enough at home to watch movies or play a couple of games, but trying to do any kind of serious work on them, either editing photos, writing something, sending files, even trying to use a sequencer is an exercise in frustration. We are sooo lucky there (still) exist alternative computing so…

is someone forcing you to buy apple products?

Lack of alternatives.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#117

Post by ghusto »

Tip: To be taken more seriously, don't use such childish language. I was reading the first part and nearly switched off without checking the comments here. I'm glad I did, because I see now how serious (and maybe _illegal?_) this is.

Don't turn your audience away with emotional wording, for something that can easily have impact if you communicate it purely for what it is.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#118

Post by [deleted] »

jsnell wrote: post #89
agust wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did this just get marked as dupe to pull it off the front page? How outrageous. The link has not been posted before.

Dupes are not just for the exact same URL. This topic has gotten a lot of attention on the frontpage, and there's no significant new information in this article.

[deleted]

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#119

Post by incrudible »

azangru wrote: post #96
neximo64 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWA's can do most things: https://whatpwacando.today . Steve Jobs also preferred PWAs and hated the app store. I'm curious as to ask what they can't do that a native app can do without any workaround whatsoever? I don't know of a single person, ordinary person, who uses PWAs. A Cordova app is a better experience.

> Steve Jobs also preferred PWAs and hated the app store. Steve Jobs died in 2011. None of the apis that make a PWA had been developed by then. How can you know what he preferred or hated?

People often forget this, but before the App Store, the idea was that you would use HTML apps, added to the homescreen. It was in the very first iPhone. It was not called PWA then, and technically a PWA need not be a homescreen app either.

Whether Steve hated the App Store I do not know, but it was not in his original vision for the iPhone.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#120

Post by szasamasa »

wiseowise wrote: post #107
neximo64 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite often where people make the greatest mistake. It's all about distribution and customer usage. Most people hate and don't use PWAs. What stands in the way are Native iPhone apps are better. It also goes for android too. That's why PWAs fail. If they were successful Apple would find a way to monetise the hell out of them.

The only reason why I would install native application is if it's the only way of distribution and I absolutely NEED to use it (banking, government, etc.), for everything else if it's not in a browser - it doesn't exist to me. Native applications might offer marginal performance boost, but given how optimized modern web is and how powerful are devices that I use - that's not an argument to me unless I do something co…

totally agree

in the end, freedom of choice, diversity and innovation would make every service find its optimal incarnation (native or web)

in addition, web security is actually so robust via sandboxing that I feel more secure in a top browser on any web domains than downloading stuff from app stores

native apps have a built in "layer" of bot security, however... a website has to implement security itself because even a smart fridge can make GET requests :)

but I just play the devil's lawyer... I think 999 out of 1000 "standalone UX" better off delivered from the web

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