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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#781

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The US might. Microsoft narrowly avoided a company breakup over web browser policies, it seems entirely feasible that Apple's App Store could lead down the same path.

Or any of their embedded features. Apple Pay, for example.

That’s getting “fixed” in upcoming release, in EU at least.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#782

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2013 was the peak for me. iPhone 6 and Macbook Air 2013 the last good devices. i have macbook pro m2 at work and just typing into the terminal is laggy. plus random crashes, apps refusing to start no legacy app support. my windows 10 is much much more stable. their phones being turned into a super fragile glass brick with no consideration of hand ergonomics is peak hubris. and the face ID, pure marketing gimmick that…

First time I've heard Windows being more stable than MacOS, haha. I do own a Pro M2, and the experience is alright. My terminal is fine, but I also do get the crashes, and there's a lot of things that just bug me about the system.

Do you guys feel frustrated that if you were on Linux, you could fix those small annoying bugs or glitches yourself, but since it’s Apple you can’t, and since it’s Apple these bugs won’t get fixed ever at all for being too minuscule, so you have to accept to live with them?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#783

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Because it's replacing one closed OS for another closed OS. AOSP is open source and unlike stock Android it doesn't have a bunch of preinstalled spying apps from Google/Samsung/you-name-it which you cannot easily uninstall. Plus Nokia is no more: https://www.gizchina.com/2024/02/01/mobile-phone-brand-trans...

A common user can not be expected to go through with flashing an Android device. A technical user, sure. But a technical user could also simply go and disable much of the offending apps via `adb` effectively removing them (without uninstalling them) from the device. This is a much less drastic move than flashing a device. And contrary to belief, Google is not monitoring everything that happens on the device. Let's gi…

As for Google and monitoring, see this study: https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#784

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All my banks are accessible through Angelfish web browser. If you need Android apps, Sailfish OS supports them. Or else install AOSP. We live in XXI century, there is something like Internet, you don't have to travel in order to buy a phone, see e.g. eBay.

Indeed 21st century. That’s why I wish you luck in getting out of that sheltered bubble whatever and wherever it is.

Straight to big corp. data harvesting industry? No, thanks. I prefer more privacy in my shelter and I recommend it to you too.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#785

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If it wasn't for Turing your job might not have been a thing. If it wasn't for Tim Berners-Lee, we might not have been here having this discussion. Hint: neither is/was American. Just to throw some examples.

What modern consumer-facing companies have come out of the EU in the past 20 years, besides Spotify? How is that list looking compared to the US? That's all the evidence you need that the EU has seriously fucked up with regards to encouraging tech innovation. A lack of tech innovation has terrifying implications for the EU long-term, such as reduced QoL, brain drain, economic decline, etc. - all of which are already…

It’s an interesting bias, that people use consumer facing European tech products and don’t even know it.

Just have a look: https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E12AQFqW-dnIUTj2w/articl...

Majority of educational software is European. That list above is missing Duolingo. A giant undoubtedly. Hey, did you know Gitlab was European, too? Or Skype? Or Waze? Or Booking.com? Or Skyscanner? Or even flightradar?

PS. I didn’t limit this to EU only.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#786

So many laypeople that I know don’t even use bookmarks. I’m a Linux geek with macOS and Windows in the house and I’ve never used a PWA. I just can’t get excited over this one.. technical, political.. Apple is doing what I’d expect from a company being told how to build and change their product. And since I don’t want to live in a Dell world running Windows paired to an Android phone of any kind, I personally am incli…

> I’m a Linux geek with macOS and Windows in the house and I’ve never used a PWA.

I'm pretty techy and I'm pretty baffled myself. I don't think I've ever even seen anyone else use a PWA, let alone used them myself.

And honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about them. Replacing native apps with web-only cloud services sounds like a bad case of 'out of the frying pan and into the fire'.

I've come to hate what Apple has done to computing, but I'm sceptical that PWAs are the solution here, so I'm struggling to get too fired up about this.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#787
post #612

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I mean, the problem is the same one introduced since the two big mobile platforms were established: "I want to publish to IOS/Android as a native app without needing to have two separate builds to manage". PWAs make that pitch to those who already have websites to triple dip. It never has to promise to be as good as a native app, just "good enough". Does it live up to that? YMMV. It's probably fine for very simple ap…

The "two big mobile platforms" were not established by an irreversible act of God. Before the current time of two platforms, there was a time of (mostly-)one platform i.e. the Web, and that platform had quite a few nice features. One of the small conveniences is indeed that you didn't need to develop the same thing twice, which made the barrier to entry much lower. The functionality that you were exposing to users di…

>There was no _chokepoints_ that a single company could squeeze to further its own interests (after the collapse of IE).

Google Chrome would like a word...

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#788
post #536

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Google have an interest in moving people away from desktop applications because they don’t have a desktop OS (not counting Chromebook). We run 3 SaaS apps. One is strictly native, and the other two are strictly web. Writing for 4 platforms on the native app is an extremely expensive exercise and then we are also subject to the insanity that is the App Store. Long story here, everything from App Store review times on…

> why PWA’s are awesome You've described some advantages to you as a developer. For the average user, apps that change all the time and effectively make them a tester aren't such a no brainer!

Resolution time on native is longer than web. Bugs happen, native, web, doesn’t matter…bugs happen.

Re benefit for who. We will invest our time where it makes the most sense. If you’re familiar with platform risk, you’ll understand that we’re not exactly eager for our existence to be subject to the whims of Apple and Google.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#789
post #353

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Windows was both. If you were buying a computer in the early 2000s, it was almost certainly a Windows PC.

That was because Microsoft abused their monopoly in operating systems at the time to force OEMs to use their OS on all their computers in order to maintain the industry discounts on OEM licensing.

Back in the day MSFT bolted IE into the operating system to a greater degree than Apple has done with Safari - a ton of the DLL's relied on IE for a lot of UI components and IE had ActiveX that literally hosted executable content in a browser window. It's almost like they hung out a sign on every PC and Windows server that said "please p0wn this machine" and lots of the bad actors in the world came knocking.

They didn't take security seriously when they were laying down the architecture for Windows because they didn't think they had to. Apple is taking the exact opposite approach. They're fairly obsessed with security and privacy because that's one of the big selling points for the whole iOS ecosystem. They miss things because they (like us) live in the real world but they do pay a lot of attention to it and the number of updates for things like 0day defects that arrive within days of the defects being reported tells me that this continues to this day.

Apple doesn't have a monopoly. Per https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide Android has twice the market share that iOS has. The reason for all of this generated drama is found in https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/. The key bullet points are:

"App Revenue Key Statistics

* Mobile ad spend in 2022 reached $362 billion, a 7.7% increase on the previous year * Android and iOS app consumer spending increased to $135 billion in 2023 * iOS was responsible for 66% of app consumer spending in 2023 * Games accounted for 60% of consumer app spending in 2023. Google Play contributed 41% of the total amount * Subscription revenues increased to $45.6 billion in 2023, iOS was responsible for 76% of that revenue"

The real reason for all this foolishness can be found in these bullet points. 66% of $135 billion is $89.1 billion, and lots of people would love to get a piece of that pie without dealing with Apple (who built and owns the stack). It isn't a monopoly, though, and all of that monopoly talk is misdirection.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#790
post #748

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Tend to agree with all of this. Manifest is way too finicky. Would be interesting to see how the play store changes in the event of Android honoring code signing for side loading like windows. Eg..no scare screen on side loaded apk’s as long as they’re code signed. I suspect the App Store would live on as a consumer focused App Store and the enterprise apps would direct distribute which makes sense anyhow cause IAP d…

Android doesn't do scare screens actually. The only real difference between installing an APK from the play store and an APK you found on the internet is that the application calling the installer has a one time "OK" to make sure you are the one who wants to install an APK; Play Store has this as well, but the default distribution has it turned on, by going in the settings you can fiddle with it and turn it off if yo…

I’ll have to test this tomorrow. Last time I tried sideloading direct from our website I had to flip a switch in settings which came with a scare dialog. If I remember correctly, it was a system wide setting too and didn’t allow for trusting specific sources. If we can self distribute on Android, that will be 3 out of 4.
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