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It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#81

Post by anon373839 »

agust wrote: post #77
merricksb wrote: post #69

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39388218 - Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose (techcrunch.com) (815 points / 1 day ago / 766 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39386244 - Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in the EU (9to5mac.com) (112 points / 1 day ago/ 125 comments)

Did this just get marked as dupe to pull it off the front page? How outrageous. The link has not been posted before.

This was a new article and the focus of the discussion was different.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#82

Post by szasamasa »

merricksb wrote: post #69

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39388218 - Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose (techcrunch.com) (815 points / 1 day ago / 766 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39386244 - Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in the EU (9to5mac.com) (112 points / 1 day ago/ 125 comments)

the article I posted was from: https://open-web-advocacy.org/

and I wrote a nice article-ish piece myself, trying to get above "I want my walled garden" and "everybody hates pwa" comments you find under those links above...

but I guess you had your reasons!

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#83

Post by throwaway49849 »

agust wrote: post #77
merricksb wrote: post #69

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39388218 - Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose (techcrunch.com) (815 points / 1 day ago / 766 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39386244 - Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in the EU (9to5mac.com) (112 points / 1 day ago/ 125 comments)

Did this just get marked as dupe to pull it off the front page? How outrageous. The link has not been posted before.

It's funny that this post is considered dupes of those 2, but those 2 are not dupes of each other.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#84

Post by szasamasa »

tremarley wrote: post #38

Since iOS 17.4 for EU users 1. Apple will DELETE user's data without notice 2. Lot of apps will stop working and there will be no way to access them without update 3. Web Push will stop working; users expecting notifications will never get them 4. Apple breaks the Web platform This was published in the document "Update on apps distributed in the European Union" https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-…

is this true? I mean they cannot delete Chrome data

which web capabilities will actually not work any more?

I mean service workers will not, and it is a big one... all they do is caching and you can create an offline working website with them

web push another big one (not for me, but many use them)

which other web capabilities does Apple target?

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#85

Post by phartenfeller »

neximo64 wrote: post #47
anon373839 wrote: post #14

> It’s telling that this is the feature that Apple refused to share. And it makes sense: the idea that users could install safe and secure apps that Apple can’t tax, block or control is terrifying to them. I think that’s what this decision is all about. When Safari was the only browser engine on iOS, PWAs didn’t threaten the App Store because Safari delivers a degraded experience with them. With alternative browser e…

This is quite often where people make the greatest mistake. It's all about distribution and customer usage. Most people hate and don't use PWAs. What stands in the way are Native iPhone apps are better. It also goes for android too. That's why PWAs fail. If they were successful Apple would find a way to monetise the hell out of them.

I agree that native apps can offer better experiences and often do because they get more development effort. I disagree that most people hate PWAs because they are just websites.

I think many mix bad websites with "PWA is a bad technology". All the cookie banners, ads and prompts to install the native app are the reason the experience is worse.

What could a native app for Wikipedia, Google or a basic news pages (without ads) do better? I use the Twitter PWA for years as it saves battery and offers the same experience. Maybe animations are not as smooth but most people won't even notice that. I also rather use YouTube in Firefox mobile so I can use uBlock even though the app offers more features and generally more ambition. For hardware heavy use cases native apps are obviously better.

Also when companies push people to install the native apps for quick access, push notifications and better data collection you can't take customer usage as a metric for people's taste.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#86

Post by firtoz »

szasamasa wrote: post #80
agust wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did this just get marked as dupe to pull it off the front page? How outrageous. The link has not been posted before.

and they changed my title not just the link was new from open web advocacy, I also posted actually a piece to try to have a more focused and deep conversation so they changed my original title that was actually funny and to the point, marked as duplicate and so the writer of the article from open web advocacy and my article-like comment was shadow banned, thanks!

The title does need to match the one within the website

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#87

Post by meepmorp »

szasamasa wrote: post #49
duiker101 wrote: post #16

Did anyone actually ever put web apps on their home screen?

web apps are the future, not the present Apple was holding them back and just pulled the plug. Only if web programmers can count on future proof support will they produce web apps. In addition, most companies have already created native apps so again, web apps are the future, it is not an argument that there are few on iOS and yes, outlook or X are good examples

web apps are a lowest common denominator solution that result in shittier software with worse features, security, and privacy

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#88

Post by palata »

p_l wrote: post #59
neximo64 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWA's can do most things: https://whatpwacando.today . Steve Jobs also preferred PWAs and hated the app store. I'm curious as to ask what they can't do that a native app can do without any workaround whatsoever? I don't know of a single person, ordinary person, who uses PWAs. A Cordova app is a better experience.

I find PWAs great for all those little used or temporary apps. I have a bunch of specialized calculators installed as PWAs - they work great for the purposes. Similarly, there's no reason a conference should have a native app that will only pollute my system over time - PWAs are ideal for once-only events that aren't going to reuse the app for next edition.

> temporary apps

Can you not install a native app one day, and uninstall it the next day? Or does it not count as "temporary"?

Or are PWAs uninstalling automatically somehow?

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#89

Post by jsnell »

agust wrote: post #77
merricksb wrote: post #69

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39388218 - Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose (techcrunch.com) (815 points / 1 day ago / 766 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39386244 - Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in the EU (9to5mac.com) (112 points / 1 day ago/ 125 comments)

Did this just get marked as dupe to pull it off the front page? How outrageous. The link has not been posted before.

Dupes are not just for the exact same URL. This topic has gotten a lot of attention on the frontpage, and there's no significant new information in this article.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#90

Post by szasamasa »

andy_ppp wrote: post #63
tremarley wrote: post #38

Since iOS 17.4 for EU users 1. Apple will DELETE user's data without notice 2. Lot of apps will stop working and there will be no way to access them without update 3. Web Push will stop working; users expecting notifications will never get them 4. Apple breaks the Web platform This was published in the document "Update on apps distributed in the European Union" https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-…

I take it this is just for PWAs?

it must be for all websites since a web app is just a website that may or may not implement web capabilities

actually no such thing as PWA, there are plenty of web standards but no web standard about PWA

the web standard that governs standalone mode and home screen button and such is a draft (web app manifest)

the website does not need to be progressive, not even offline capable to get standalone and home screen button

the "very dangerouos" service workers can run in any website silently without standalone mode or app buttons or any user interaction (maybe because they are not that creepy after all, an open source javascript that tells browsers how to cache)

I really hate this web app distinction and install language because 1. it is not standard 2. it is not true 3. it is contra-productive

I wrote a piece about this somewhere in a top level comment. Apple breaks web capabilities both in websites and standalone websites (web apps).

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