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Raising Children on the Eve of AI

juliawise.net

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Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#21

Post by packetlost »

keiferski wrote: post #17
aquarkortwo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world where we have personalized tutors and assistants that can pass on knowledge much more efficiently and effectively than human teachers can.

People keep saying this and I don’t buy it. Kids arent going to learn the best by staring at a computer screen eight hours a day. If this happens it’ll be because of reduced education funding, not efficiency.

I think a prerequisite to that is figuring out how to get them to not spit out complete bullshit consistently anyways.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#22

Post by wilbo »

aquarkortwo wrote: post #9
MichaelMug wrote: post #4

> Partly because even in a world where it became clear that school isn’t useful I don’t follow… In what world is school not useful? I suspect the social value of school will become much more apparent soon.

In a world where we have personalized tutors and assistants that can pass on knowledge much more efficiently and effectively than human teachers can.

* I suspect the social value of school will become much more apparent soon.*

School is not just about the academic knowledge you gain. Plus, I'd imagine pairing a personalized tutor with an effective human teacher would only accelerate learning faster.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#23

Post by AnarchismIsCool »

rbanffy wrote: post #3

One bit of warning: we tend to overestimate the short term impact of new tools while underestimating their long term ones. It’s likely our kids will have recognisable professions with better phones than not. AI will be there assisting us in increasingly sophisticated ways, acting as intelligent agents and maybe even impersonating us at simple interactions. Value and supply chains change slowly and those are the thing…

In five years the world will be identical to the present. In 15, it will be unrecognizable.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#24

Post by Vecr »

Vecr wrote: post #15
throwanem wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why waste time posting here that you could spend weaving mosquito nets, then? Surely this can't be a global maximum in utilon space.

I'm talking about VNM utility, I'm not a utilitarian or a EA.

> VNM applied in the realm of ethics is definitionally utilitarian.

I assume you are thinking deontological ethics, virtue ethics, etc vs utilitarianism, but non-benthamite utility functions exist. Actually, if they didn't I assume a lot of AI doomers would be less doomy, as quite a few of them are utilitarians.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#25

Post by dsign »

Vecr wrote: post #14
mocamoca wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to show a lack of respect for parents and their good will. However, could we say that "you at least have to play to not lose" is a particularly selfish reason for having children? Here, "Playing" is making sure the parents will have caregivers, not that the children will live happy. If the current situation is not worrying enough to rule out having happy kids, what would be the threshold? (Not a rhetoric…

> If the current situation is not worrying enough to rule out having happy kids, what would be the threshold? (Not a rhetorical question) There is no threshold. Yes, I know Yudkowsky's position, not even there. > Here, 'Playing' is making sure the parents will have caregivers, not that the children will live happy. Parents having caregivers hardly comes into it at all.

> Parents having caregivers hardly comes into it at all.

For me, it does, an awful lot. Being a caregiver to my parents has implied a lot of existential suffering and emotional agony. Think about it: the people who raised you are going to die slowly and perhaps painfully and you are going to see it without being able to do anything. I feel I would be very cruel by giving that future to a child I love.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#26

Post by Vecr »

dsign wrote: post #25
Vecr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the current situation is not worrying enough to rule out having happy kids, what would be the threshold? (Not a rhetorical question) There is no threshold. Yes, I know Yudkowsky's position, not even there. > Here, 'Playing' is making sure the parents will have caregivers, not that the children will live happy. Parents having caregivers hardly comes into it at all.

> Parents having caregivers hardly comes into it at all. For me, it does, an awful lot. Being a caregiver to my parents has implied a lot of existential suffering and emotional agony. Think about it: the people who raised you are going to die slowly and perhaps painfully and you are going to see it without being able to do anything. I feel I would be very cruel by giving that future to a child I love.

That's either going to happen or it's not, but I don't think everyone being dead is an acceptable way to force it to be wrong.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#27

Post by bbor »

inference-lord wrote: post #12

I became a parent about a year ago, completely unprepared for this future. My Son was born around the time ChatGPT-4 was released and I remember all the Geoffrey Hinton interviews which were really apocalyptic sounding, he is has a kind of kookie mad scientist vibe about him too. I remember thinking, like what the fuck just happened? Like I just woke up in a movie. I've learned to accept the situation, and realize th…

  It seems like our careers could just be snuffed out instantly with little recourse available.
You’ve likely heard this sentiment before but it’s the right one so I’ll be the one to post it today: your job is not your purpose, and the economy is not the society. Obviously your whole comment is well founded and relatable, but I think this is the only cure for your anxieties. The world is a beautiful, beautiful place, with many more wonders to offer than the typical laborer is accustomed to. If we eventually have a society where everyone is happy with what they have and there’s no work left to do, that would be a cause for celebration IMO.

This is all assuming that the intelligence explosion people are wrong. If they’re right… well, let’s hope they’re wrong.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#28

Post by alumic »

inference-lord wrote: post #12

I became a parent about a year ago, completely unprepared for this future. My Son was born around the time ChatGPT-4 was released and I remember all the Geoffrey Hinton interviews which were really apocalyptic sounding, he is has a kind of kookie mad scientist vibe about him too. I remember thinking, like what the fuck just happened? Like I just woke up in a movie. I've learned to accept the situation, and realize th…

I drove around today listening to the most recent Lex Fridman podcast, in which the founder of Boston Dynamics was describing replacing human labor with machines that were capable of learning by seeing. I have family in the trades. I pursued tech and fell in love with the field. Listening to the interviewee, I began to feel sick to my stomach at the glib description of what amounts to ripping away peoples' livelihoods with plasticized fingers. Work is equivalent to worth. We are not biologically or sociologically prepared to differentiate the two.

How easy it must be for Sam Altman to drag the world kicking and screaming into the future. How pretty his offices.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#29

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

rbanffy wrote: post #3

One bit of warning: we tend to overestimate the short term impact of new tools while underestimating their long term ones. It’s likely our kids will have recognisable professions with better phones than not. AI will be there assisting us in increasingly sophisticated ways, acting as intelligent agents and maybe even impersonating us at simple interactions. Value and supply chains change slowly and those are the thing…

This sounds humble, but it's a prediction that actually contains a lot of confidence about where the future will go.

Re: Raising Children on the Eve of AI

#30

Post by Turing_Machine »

AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #19
Vecr wrote: post #2

> Is it even ok to have kids? According to me (utility function, etc) it's required you have kids. Only in the 2.X statistical sense though, but if not what's the point? You can't condition all your problems out, but you at least have to play to not lose.

What is winning and what is losing? Yeah there are actions that persist our genetics but there's no rule saying that's what needs to happen, just that it's something that happens . If you widen out to society, yeah, there are other people who will come after us, maybe we can have purpose in helping those people to survive even if they're not our kids. Humans evolved as a collective, there are parts of our DNA that ex…

> What is winning and what is losing? Yeah there are actions that persist our genetics but there's no rule saying that's what needs to happen, just that it's something that happens.

All of us are descended from billions of years of ancestors (long before humans) that were motivated to reproduce. Those who didn't left none of their genes behind (other than ones they might have shared with relatives).

That's exactly what "losing" means, in the evolutionary sense.

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