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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#751

Post by Dylan16807 »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #727
Dylan16807 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Every conforming cable supports 3 amps and 20 volts. If you think something's incorrect with that, be specific . But the spec is pretty clear. The exact details of the faster cables are murky because there's old and new versions of that section of the spec, but very few devices use enough power to care about that.

USB-C spec is not very clear. And even in cases where it is clear. It’s not followed. There’s so many bad cables around. Cables that work on 1 device but not another, cables which do data and not PD, cables that do PD and not data, USB-C has the nicest plug with the worst experience.

The power handling of a basic cable is very clear.

If something breaks that, it doesn't make sense to blame USB. Whatever the manufacturer was doing, it was such a mess that it would fail with any other standard.

Supporting data and PD is just three tiny wires, it's not hard.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#752

Post by NorwegianDude »

dangus wrote: post #343
shuckles wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the advocate retort is that lack of support on iOS makes them a nonstarter for developers on all platforms. I think this argument is more of an excuse.

Right, Android has something like 70% global marketshare. PWAs aren’t popular because they don’t really benefit developers/businesses. They also don’t offer any advantages in user experience over a native app. Apart from the economics, there’s no developer friction advantage since you can use something like react native and deploy anywhere. The kind of deep user information you can gather by installing a full blown a…

What world are you living in? Web apps are literally 100+ times faster to start using, much easier to share, much easier to market, and you can offer much cheaper services as apple doesn't take a large cut of payments.

That's just a few of many advantages.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#753

Post by NorwegianDude »

m463 wrote: post #354
benguild wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…

how do they know low usage if there is no download from apple?

Apple are extensively tracking users, that's how they can know.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#754

Post by prmoustache »

Pfhortune wrote: post #707
prmoustache wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tested just now in Firefox with an app from https://appsco.pe and it does indeed work! I tested just now in firefox with an app from https://appsco.pe and it just...opened a browser tab with the website. So I understand a PWA is just a website but isn't the whole point to have a dedicated window/card for it?

I don't know what your setup is, but it did work for me, creating an app that shows as its own icon on the homescreen, without FF chrome, with a separate app-switcher entry. Using a S24 Ultra with whatever the current OneUI is.

I think it wasn't my setup but the app I tested on (Imgur). Trying another one worked.

It looks like appsco.pe has some incorrect entries in its list of PWA.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#755

Post by NorwegianDude »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #455
akmarinov wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever they manage to eek out in the EU, is the future of what iOS will be in the US and worldwide eventually. If they go with fully fledged PWAs that the other browser engines will enable - there’s little reason to use the Appstore, hence Apple losing their 30% commission. From their perspective it’s not so much throwing a tantrum but clawing and screaming their way into giving up as little revenue as possible.

We also know 70% of revenue comes from games. And there's no way proper game is going run on a PWA. I also invoke Android again... PWAs exist, Google still holds the lions share. Google has freaked out about it too and is being sanctioned as we speak for it, but most customers simply aren't going to look for an alt app store outside of niche uses.

Some games work really well as a PWA. Acquiring users is much cheaper too compared to an app.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#756

Post by NorwegianDude »

buzzert wrote: post #377
Zagitta wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope EU comes down HARD on them for trying to pull this shit

What exactly does that look like, in your mind? The EU coerces Apple engineers to work for free?

Well, if they have to allow other engines then those browsers should be able to implement PWA features and web push on iOS instead. Then user can hide the trash that is safari on iOS and never use it again. Win win.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#757

Post by mckn1ght »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #661
mckn1ght wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think government can prove morality, but markets cannot? If you don't think government is a marketplace where the currency is political capital, then you have a naive view of how governments work. Also, I don't believe the EU is a direct democracy, so the representative morality is lossy. Have you never disagreed with a decision made by a politician you voted for? I'm saying that customers decide whether or no…

Yes, a democratic government represents the people, and thus their moral stance. A market sells stuff. There's really no relationship between the two nouns. No reason to compare them. You might as well ask, "So the people can decide what's moral, but a jar of pickles can't?" Yes, that's correct. A jar of pickles is technically a market, so this analogy applies particularly well. > I'm saying that customers decide whe…

> you mentioned accountability while we were on the topic of representation

Because they are interrelated concepts. Without accountability you can’t be trusted to faithfully represent someone. “Representation” without accountability is autocracy.

Also, chill with the condescension.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#758

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

mckn1ght wrote: post #757
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a democratic government represents the people, and thus their moral stance. A market sells stuff. There's really no relationship between the two nouns. No reason to compare them. You might as well ask, "So the people can decide what's moral, but a jar of pickles can't?" Yes, that's correct. A jar of pickles is technically a market, so this analogy applies particularly well. > I'm saying that customers decide whe…

> you mentioned accountability while we were on the topic of representation Because they are interrelated concepts. Without accountability you can’t be trusted to faithfully represent someone. “Representation” without accountability is autocracy. Also, chill with the condescension.

You are right, they may relate, and thus can be easy to confuse for each other when one is being discussed. So we have to be extra careful when bringing one up in a discussion about the other.

In this case, though, the CEO is not accountable to customers, and the CEO does not represent customers, so not too confusing. He is accountable to the BoD (nobody else can fire him) and represents the corporation. The interests of other parties, including customers, are secondary to, and when opposed lose to, the interests of the corporation.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#759

Post by jsnell »

xvector wrote: post #742
jsnell wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they haven't told Apple to implement any APIs. They've told Apple to stop abusing their dominant market position and allow competing browser engines. Apple needs to do basically nothing to enable that, except to allow the same entitlements they already give Safari for other browsers, and to stop rejecting competing browsers in their policy and review. (If you disagree, can you name one of the APIs you think th…

Taking PWAs away is not "preventing other browser engines" on iOS. Apple is clearly in compliance with the law

So I take it you agree they have not been told to implement any APIs, and retract your original claim?

We'll see how the EC reacts to what Apple did with PWAs. The DMA is not a checklist of specific features. It doesn't talk about PWAs, just like it doesn't talk about specific APIs. It's basically just very broad requirements for the big platforms to open up for competition.

By killing PWAs, Apple is preventing competition on both areas where they have DMA mandates, iPhone apps and browsers. (Yes, you can make a browser, but better support for PWAs would have been one of the easier selling points for competing browsers. By artificially disallowing them, Apple is removing that feature from play.)

Now Apple is pretending that their choices were to do a ton of work, or to cripple PWAs as both an app store competitor and as a feature of browser differentiation, and oh golly they just had to do the latter. But in reality they had the third choice of just opening up the platform, which is pretty much what the regulations tried to achieve. That they chose to do extra work to cripple the competition rather than open up seems like the kind of things regulators won't be happy about.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#760

Post by internetter »

natch wrote: post #736
internetter wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android zero days are worth as much as iPhone ones.

Both can be true. Google pays as much for zero days, and Google prioritizes security and privacy less than Apple does. Google's very means of income relies on gathering and to an extent sharing your personal data.

I'm not talking about what Google pays for vulnerabilities. I'm talking about black markets & brokers.

Edit: and "Android" as in the AOSP (where PWAs still function) does not sell data.

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