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Alexei Navalny has died

reuters.com

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#831

Post by pompino »

mywittyname wrote: post #738
joenot443 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hang out with people of a huge range of political views, from classical Marxist-Leninists to earnest tear-it-down anarchists, from neolib Obama stans to full magapedes. I've yet to meet a single one who "actively supports Russia and praises Putin as savior of the West". Like, literally not one. The only time I've _ever_ heard this viewpoint uttered in North America is when people online are sketching it out online…

My dad praises Putin as a good leader. He sees Putin as someone who is merely capitalizing on the weakness of Biden, and that Putin was scared of Trump. In his mind, Putin invading Ukraine is the fault of everyone who voted for Biden. It's stupid an illogical, but it is his legitimate opinion on the matter. He's not even a fringe case either, just your standard old dude who parrots whatever crap Fox News is spewing.

Your dad doesn't actively support Putin or Russia. Nor does he think that Putin is the savior of the West.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#832

Post by midasz »

holoduke wrote: post #793
emptysongglass wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Things were set in motion years ago and they are slowly unraveling. When the West rejected Russia's deeper integration into its structures after the Cold War ended and expanded NATO towards the East this path was set in stone. The late 2000s were the absolute breaking point. Your point would have been better made without weaseling in a Mearsheimer apology for authoritarian states. Russia snatching Ukraine has absol…

[flagged]

nato is a defensive pact

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#833

Post by elihu »

jncfhnb wrote: post #335
merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

There are more oppositional figures, they’re simply barred from entry because it’s not a real democracy. Russia is not gaining noteworthy traction. Avdiivka is a tiny pointless place aside from the fact that Russia is willing to impale itself at horrible odds to achieve any victory it can for optics.

Avdiivka is a tiny fraction of all of Ukraine, but it's still noteworthy that Russia is making significant progress there, and pushing in at other points on the whole front. Ukraine's lines aren't at imminent risk of collapsing, but they have a pretty serious shortage of artillery shells and other equipment, and it's taking a toll.

If the U.S. were still supplying Ukraine they'd be in a much better place.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#834

Post by tivert »

freedomben wrote: post #822
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

Indeed. There's a common saying that sort of derives from Frédéric Bastiat that "where goods cross borders, armies don't." Trade and economic dependence is the best deterrent of war that there is. That doesn't necessarily mean that it stops all war, but it definitely raises the cost of war and costs matter. It's also IMHO the most productive and ethical way to reduce/prevent war. Maybe they shouldn't have allowed som…

> Indeed. There's a common saying that sort of derives from Frédéric Bastiat that "where goods cross borders, armies don't." Trade and economic dependence is the best deterrent of war that there is.

It's a saying whose truth has been greatly exaggerated, and the people who foolishly believe it have a tendency to make themselves vulnerable.

> That doesn't necessarily mean that it stops all war, but it definitely raises the cost of war and costs matter.

Costs apparently matter less than you think.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#835

Post by ethanbond »

lawlessone wrote: post #721
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

>The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It mostly worked within in the EU because you needed meaningfully adopt certain standards to join the market. Russia didn't have to do any of that and by the time more people started to understand the problem developing they already had leverage.

The EU is at least as much a consequence of economic integration as it is a driver of it. The Marshall Plan wasn't just handshake deals to play nicely from now on.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#836

Post by Gibbon1 »

philwelch wrote: post #698
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

The strategy seems to have gone 0-2 with Russia and China; can you name an instance in which it succeeded?

I don't personally think is economic liberalization that succeeded.

It's the US won't stand for anymore wars like that. And for 50 years after WWII they could enforce that. You can note the general absence of large wars in North and South America as evidence of that.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#837

Post by ethanbond »

andy-x wrote: post #706
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

You probably mean "to prevent military tension"? When tension already becomes war, it's sort of pointless to continue economic integration in the hope that it can stop war.

I don't know what truly zero military tension looks like but I think economic integration can both prevent and reduce it.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#838

Post by ethanbond »

genman wrote: post #711
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

If it was not clear for the reader of this comment: European Union is the example that has ended centuries old tensions between European powers.

Also Japan, Korea, Canada-US-Mexico, also improving relations with various Middle Eastern states

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#839

Post by maxlamb »

askvictor wrote: post #798
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He will be forgotten in a week, at least by the West. Do you remember the guy who flew over Belarus and his plane was redirected to seize him? Any news? I do not even remember his name. Going back to Russia was a stupid move, he could have had much more visibility from the EU.

| He will be forgotten in a week, at least by the West. He wasn't doing that for the amusement of the West; he was doing it for the Russians.

Sadly it will have as much of an impact on the Russians as any political martyr in any past dictatorship. And that is, almost certainly nothing.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#840

Post by elihu »

willsmith72 wrote: post #703
merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

Just wait for the US election, it's gonna be a fun year

What everyone was afraid would happen if Trump wins in 2024 -- him blocking aid to Ukraine -- has already happened.

Trump winning would be bad news for Ukraine, but in practical terms they've already been thrown under the bus by Republicans in Congress.

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