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Alexei Navalny has died

reuters.com

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#731

Post by Lutger »

data_maan wrote: post #529
KingOfCoders wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Germany will buy its F-35s" No. Germany needs those F-35 only for delivering nukes ("Nukleare Teilhabe") [0] replacing aging Tornados in that role. With Trump as the next president I don't think you find a German politician (except the far left and far right) who thinks sharing nukes with the US is working any longer. I'd think Germany will rather take French nukes instead of using US nukes in the future. "There's z…

I'm pretty sure Trump didn't say "rape" (source?).

He said Russia can do what it wants. Given Russia's track record, rape will not be the worst of offenses.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#732

Post by ncr100 »

SEJeff wrote: post #723
merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

Navalty had some pretty scary things to say about Ukraine as well. To summarize: He thought there are no differences between Ukranian people and Russian people, he thinks that Crimea is rightfully Russia's (finder's keepers!), and he thinks it would be nice for Belarus and Ukraine to just be absorbed by Russia and become part of Russia again. He was only against the war in Ukraine when it became obvious it was not go…

I'm not sure that's an accurate reflection of the man's views. Your sequencing is not construable to a new fact.

He did recant any notion of Ukrainians being Russian. He also asserted ukrainians Right to independent self-governing.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#733

Post by wolverine876 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #607
kemotep wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose the west avoids conflict with Russia and China? Is there any examples in history of appeasement leading to less bloodshed?

> Is there any examples in history of appeasement leading to less bloodshed? Generally you avoid conflict by being scary, not agreeable.

> Generally you avoid conflict by being scary, not agreeable.

As a rule of life, that's a pretty bad idea. I don't avoid conflict with family, friends, neighbors, coworkers by being scary.

In international relations, it's by far more effective to be agreeable. Alliances are far more stable than competitive balance between 'scary' countries. Look at the EU; look at Korea - which relationships are more stable, the scary or the agreeable ones? Look at Israel, where by far the most stable relationships are the agreeable ones with Egypt, Jordan, and the US, even now. Look at the US and Canada. The list goes on forever.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#734

Post by nabakin »

MrDresden wrote: post #540
MrDresden wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He will be remembered along with other reformers of history who stood up to what they believed and in the end paid with their lives. I truly hope his death will not be in vain.

I just realized that the Munich Security Conference started today. There is no chance this was an coincidence.

And less than a week after the interview with Putin. The comments section on that video is ridiculous.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#735

Post by [deleted] »

philwelch wrote: post #698
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

The strategy seems to have gone 0-2 with Russia and China; can you name an instance in which it succeeded?

[deleted]

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#736

Post by marttt »

A historian and renowned Russia expert in my country (Estonia) commented that this was probably bad timing for Putin. Now, as a martyr, Navalnyi is much more of a disturbance to Putin's regimen than he would have been as an isolated opposition leader serving a 19-year prison sentence, which rendered him not a direct threat to Putin. Like the expert put it: as a political prisoner, Navalnyi was already simply forgotten by many. [1]

Somehow this got me flipping through a book by Anna Politkovskaya, Russian journalist extraordinaire who covered the Second Chechen War and was shot dead in Moscow in 2006, on the birthday of Putin. [2]

I want to think that the age of massive online information does make at least a slight difference as to how much of the reasons behind events like these see the light of day eventually. Rest in peace, Alexei Navalnyi.

1: https://news.err.ee/1609255851/historian-navalny-s-death-wil... (Interestingly, the paragraph on Navalnyi being more of a disturbance now, after being declared dead, was not included in the English version of this news story. This is quite surprising, since ERR is actually a very well balanced source of news. All in all, that story includes interesting takes on Navalny as a politician, too, by another highly respeced Russia expert from Estonia.)

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#737

Post by elgenie »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #605
sumedh wrote: post #36

His death was certain the moment he went back to Russia. He should have stayed back in some European country and continued the fight.

Yes. And now he is dead and will be forgotten in a week. As I mentioned earlier - does anyone remember the guy who flew over Belarus and had his plane redirected to the capital, and he was seized there. He also was a protester, now forgotten. I do not even remember his name and never heard of him since then.

Navalny will be remembered, just as Boris Nemtsov is remembered.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#738

Post by mywittyname »

joenot443 wrote: post #410
api wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot a chunk of the US right actively supporting Russia and praising Putin as savior of the West. They aren’t the majority but are influential. Xi Xinpeng should take a lesson here. Apparently all you have to do is dunk on gay people and pay lip service to right wing culture war stuff and they’ll roll over. You don’t even have to mean it. (Every core statistic the right claims to care about is worse in Russia l…

I hang out with people of a huge range of political views, from classical Marxist-Leninists to earnest tear-it-down anarchists, from neolib Obama stans to full magapedes. I've yet to meet a single one who "actively supports Russia and praises Putin as savior of the West". Like, literally not one. The only time I've _ever_ heard this viewpoint uttered in North America is when people online are sketching it out online…

My dad praises Putin as a good leader. He sees Putin as someone who is merely capitalizing on the weakness of Biden, and that Putin was scared of Trump. In his mind, Putin invading Ukraine is the fault of everyone who voted for Biden. It's stupid an illogical, but it is his legitimate opinion on the matter.

He's not even a fringe case either, just your standard old dude who parrots whatever crap Fox News is spewing.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#739

Post by foxandmouse »

stcroixx wrote: post #474
merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

Europe deciding to depend on Russia for their energy and not focusing on defense spending is the unbelievable part to me, but they've been doing this for quite some time now. They walked right into it. Russia is doing what they've always done and always will do.

After the Fukushima disaster in 2011, Germany quickly moved away from nuclear power, with the last plant closing down in late 2023. Germany leads in renewable energy, but this swift change has left them with a big gap in energy security that might last until 2038.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#740

Post by wolverine876 »

lordfrito wrote: post #105

If you believe the western media, the west no longer believes in or upholds its values, and watches while Russia pushes westward while China builds up a military and eyes Taiwan, both more than happy to destabilize the middle east in pursuit of their goals. The west needs to wake up, we're slowly sliding towards a world conflict. This is going to get worse before it gets better. Edit: Russia is pushing westward not e…

> If you believe the western media, the west no longer believes in or upholds its values, and watches while Russia pushes westward while China builds up a military and eyes Taiwan, both more than happy to destabilize the middle east in pursuit of their goals.

> The west needs to wake up, we're slowly sliding towards a world conflict. This is going to get worse before it gets better.

I think there's an essential connection there: The West's values and their power, and peace and freedom. The West's power comes from its values, not only because it captures the hearts and minds of others but because the power freedom and universal human rights gives to its own people.

As many in the West disparage or undermine those values, they are doing the work of Putin and Xi (at times, I'm sure, led by their disinformation campaigns).

No more time for games. It's time, as you say, to wake up and stand up for our values.

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