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Alexei Navalny has died

reuters.com

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#711

Post by genman »

ethanbond wrote: post #655
stcroixx wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe deciding to depend on Russia for their energy and not focusing on defense spending is the unbelievable part to me, but they've been doing this for quite some time now. They walked right into it. Russia is doing what they've always done and always will do.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

If it was not clear for the reader of this comment: European Union is the example that has ended centuries old tensions between European powers.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#712

Post by ako »

stcroixx wrote: post #474
merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

Europe deciding to depend on Russia for their energy and not focusing on defense spending is the unbelievable part to me, but they've been doing this for quite some time now. They walked right into it. Russia is doing what they've always done and always will do.

Isnt the US depending on china for production just as much as Europe is depending on Russia for gas.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#713

Post by dotnet00 »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #367
emptysongglass wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Things were set in motion years ago and they are slowly unraveling. When the West rejected Russia's deeper integration into its structures after the Cold War ended and expanded NATO towards the East this path was set in stone. The late 2000s were the absolute breaking point. Your point would have been better made without weaseling in a Mearsheimer apology for authoritarian states. Russia snatching Ukraine has absol…

The West didn't reject Russia's deeper integration -- Russia, and more particularly, Putin did. There was always a plan to add Russia to the EU and even at some point get them to join NATO. Russia abandoned democracy and closed that door.

A big example of this that comes to mind to me (as a space nerd) is the ISS and various American rockets developed around that time. The US footed much of the bill for the ISS and offered Russia a ridiculously good deal in offering to launch their modules and setting up the seat exchange with Soyuz. Boeing and Lockheed Martin adopted Russian rocket engines for their rockets despite the national security concerns of having major launchers dependent on a potential adversary. This second decision caused a good bit of harm to domestic rocket engine design in the US.

Of course part of the goal was to give Russian rocket scientists a more peaceful task to work on than spreading out to Iran, North Korea etc, but it was also a great chance for Russia to integrate further with the West and expand their historical prominence in space technology.

Instead, they've done everything to ensure that they never get such a deal again, and have allowed their space industry to atrophy significantly.

There's talk about how if Russia had been allowed into NATO they'd have been able to channel their energy into more constructive pursuits, but they were given an opportunity to do that for space technology and did not do so.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#714

Post by mike_hock »

merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

Considering he was thrown in the can for 30 years and his associates had left the country, I fail to see how the opposition dies with his death, rather than having died with his incarceration.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#715

Post by genman »

philwelch wrote: post #698
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

The strategy seems to have gone 0-2 with Russia and China; can you name an instance in which it succeeded?

Remember WW1? WW2?

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#716

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

philwelch wrote: post #698
ethanbond wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of economic integration as a way to reduce military tension has worked very well in many other instances. It doesn't seem like an obviously insane thing to have tried.

The strategy seems to have gone 0-2 with Russia and China; can you name an instance in which it succeeded?

The EU. France and Germany used to be deadly enemies. No one sane is expecting a war between them any time soon.

Same with US states. Texas etc keep muttering about secession, but the economic complications make it an insane idea.

It's not inherently a bad strategy, but it tends to fail when you're dealing with huge would-be hegemons - which certainly applies to China and Russia.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#717

Post by stcroixx »

ako wrote: post #712
stcroixx wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe deciding to depend on Russia for their energy and not focusing on defense spending is the unbelievable part to me, but they've been doing this for quite some time now. They walked right into it. Russia is doing what they've always done and always will do.

Isnt the US depending on china for production just as much as Europe is depending on Russia for gas.

Yes and I'm dead set against it. When that blows up in our face we deserve it for allowing it to happen. The best we can hope for is China ruins their own economy rendering them impotent.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#719

Post by lpcvoid »

protomolecule wrote: post #469
neom wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fan fiction, but: Civil wars might do it, the Russians need to overthrow Putin, Xi in China, and we need to elect peace hawks in places that have democracy. People would have to really really really really not want a word war. On the history part, I have no clue, but I do know that today the citizenry is more connected and able to strategize for ourselfs than at any point in history before.

"the Russians need to overthrow Putin, Xi in China, and we need to elect peace hawks in places that have democracy." We overthrew communists in 1991, USSR crumbled, in 1992 Pentagon declared that America's "first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival" [0] and 17 years later NATO, after multiple rounds of expansion, announced that it would expand into Georgia and the Ukraine [1] despite all the promi…

Even if you where right, all of this doesn't matter if sovereign nations decide they don't want to deal with russian threats, oligarchy/corruption and oppression anymore by joining NATO. I am happy they did and I think Europe's future is brighter if we stand together against the darkness that is russia.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#720

Post by andygeorge »

iwontberude wrote: post #433
bvrmn wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad times began in 2012. Since then opposition has no a single chance to win elections.

Navalny was in support of Ukrainian invasion of Crimea and knew it would require a further land invasion to keep. He was just as psycho and homicidal (suicidal) as Prigozhin but refused to be under Putin’s thumb. Navalny wanted to be the #1 asshole in charge otherwise return to Russia and die in prison.

this is incorrect
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