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Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

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Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#71

Post by arp242 »

HillRat wrote: post #31
wrs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Training” in these things comes across differently than it did two years ago (i.e., employee training)! And what is “modeling” supposed to mean? This actually reads much like the typical internet ToS of 20 years ago, before it became standard to say “only as needed to provide the specific services” because people started rightfully freaking out. Especially in the media world with its history of repeatedly bilking ar…

That's one thing -- if you took a contract signed ten years ago that granted "training" rights and tried to use that for "AI training," a judge would likely find that customary business usage has changed in that time and there was no "meeting of the minds" to support a grant of AI training rights. Take that same language and sign a contract with it today ... different story. (Interesting question for contract lawyers…

> Take that same language and sign a contract with it today ... different story.

I wouldn't be so sure about that; do non-tech people commonly understand "training" to mean "training of AI models"? I don't have a poll to prove it, but I would expect not.

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#72

Post by montjoy »

avgcorrection wrote: post #57
macksd wrote: post #8

I was just seeing something about this on social media - @laura_horowitz_narrator was talking about it and one of the commenters claim they have backpedaled and apologized for "confusing language" but I don't find the language confusing at all. If you're a lawyer and you're modifying an existing document to state these terms, what else could you possibly be meaning?

We tried to rip you off but you called us out. We’re sorry about that.

Meta wanted more LLM training data from us and we caved. Whoopsie.

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#73

Post by thimp »

agshekeloh wrote: post #65
striking wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you really want to know... here's an Amazon review: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2W2GI082RE884/re... Both the review and the sample of the book available through the book's marketplace listing leave me unable to describe either of them with any single word other than "inspired".

As the author, I cannot recommend reading this tale. I must say, however, that the reviews are an art form in and of themselves and will reward ten minutes of your time. That review you cited was clearly written by someone who felt personally attacked. I have theories.

Poettering got drunk and read it?

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#74

Post by withinrafael »

I'm not a lawyer but the Voices terms from ~2017 [1] seem similar. It feels like the Spotify terms are clearer (e.g., what does "to use" really mean?).

> [...] Voices shall be free to use or disseminate such Content for the purpose of promoting the audio recordings of its works either by Voices, its affiliates, or its partners, and you grant Voices an irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, nonexclusive license to use, reproduce, distribute, transmit, display, distribute, and market such Content (including in digital form). You represent and warrant that you have proper authorization for the worldwide transfer and processing among Voices, its affiliates, partners, and third-party providers of any information that you may provide on the Site.

[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20190115070453/https://my.findawa...

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#76

Post by CatWChainsaw »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #38

This is going to significantly disrupt market economies (capitalism). It’s increasingly hard to see how humans can get compensated or incentivized or paid in anyway — without some kind of AI tax that gets redistributed. It seems like a good way to deal with the copyright infringement of current and future AI models — all revenue is taxed 10% for an endowment for the arts. Is this a crazy idea?

When artists get mad that their work was used with the aim of replacing and impoverishing them, techbros turn their schadenfreude up to 11.

When people suggest something like an AI tax, techbros seethe about communism.

Since schadenfreude is apparently how society works now, make it a 40% tax and dial it up a percent or 10 every time someone whines?

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#77

Post by torlok »

fnimick wrote: post #33
jijijijij wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your alternative? I enthusiastically do not care for podcasts, news and social "features". Recommendation for a just (all the) music, no shenanigans type of service?

youtube music? (plus ad-free youtube is included which is always nice)

That's what I use. YouTube on a free account is unusable, and I don't trust ad blockers. YouTube Music isn't perfect. A lot of songs aren't there or it's a music video version, but there's things like concerts, compilations, session recordings, covers, people improvising, etc.

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#78

Post by bigstrat2003 »

autoexec wrote: post #21
Fraterkes wrote: post #10

IANAL but this seems like a textbook example of the kinde of tos abuse that will not be enforcable. "If you click this checkbox you give us usage rights of your IP in perpetuity for free".

If you're an independent author do you think you'd have the money and resources to go up against Spotify's team of lawyers? Spotify has literal billions in assets and sadly, the legal system in the US is often pay to win.

You're correct that in practical terms, nobody is likely to fight this. But that is kind of orthogonal to the question of whether the clause will be upheld if someone does fight it.

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#79

Post by bigstrat2003 »

agshekeloh wrote: post #65
striking wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you really want to know... here's an Amazon review: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2W2GI082RE884/re... Both the review and the sample of the book available through the book's marketplace listing leave me unable to describe either of them with any single word other than "inspired".

As the author, I cannot recommend reading this tale. I must say, however, that the reviews are an art form in and of themselves and will reward ten minutes of your time. That review you cited was clearly written by someone who felt personally attacked. I have theories.

I defied your warnings and read your tale. I got some good laughs out of it. Well done!

Re: Findaway's new terms of service are unacceptable

#80

Post by stavros »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #30
torlok wrote: post #14

You definitively should do that, but I doubt that it will prevent your data from being trained on. It sucks, but that's the reality now. I stopped using Spotify a while ago. Never using it again for sure.

Won't stop the scraping, but the terms go way beyond AI training. They more or less retroactively changed the ToS to revoke all your IP rights to a work. > non-exclusive, transferable, sublicensable, royalty-free, fully paid, irrevocable, worldwide license to reproduce, make available, perform and display, translate, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, and otherwise use any such User Content through any…

They don't revoke any of your IP rights, you still own the IP. They can just do whatever they want with it.
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