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Alexei Navalny has died

reuters.com

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#661

Post by za3faran »

cglace wrote: post #144
KingOfCoders wrote: post #93

The (small) upside of all this missery, death and pain is Europe will lose some territory but gain it's own military security after decades of living from the US strategy alignment. Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict [0]. The US lost all it's t…

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

> and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault

Genuine question as someone who has no connection to either government of the Russia-Ukraine war: didn't the US push Ukraine into not accepting terms with Russia, under the promise that it would support Ukraine in case of war? In other words, it pushed Ukraine into the war, using it as a proxy to fight Russia.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#662

Post by Bayart »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #625
cglace wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

“America bad” is the opium of the masses. IMO, if any random country’s government whom we are not allied with through NATO publicly criticizes the USA’s response to helping them out in a war that we have no obligation to help with, I believe we should immediately cease any and all financial aid and let them feel the squeeze. When they publicly apologize and recognize that the United States is truly the only thing kee…

> When they publicly apologize and recognize that the United States is truly the only thing keeping any order in the world

That's the exact way to alienate people and piss away the power projection network you've spent decades to build.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#663

Post by spookybones »

acuozzo wrote: post #511
amai wrote: post #406

A 47 year old man killed by the 72 year old president. Nothing shows the conflict of generations in Russia better than this. The old farts of Russia/Soviet Union are killing the younger generation and by that are killing Russias future. For what, grandpa? For what?

What future? Between the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s and the collapse of the USSR, Russia has only a few generations left before experiencing demographic collapse. There simply aren't enough young men there to keep the Russian population growing and the population there doesn't value diversity enough to consider producing more Russian children with immigrants. This is what many believe (e.g., Peter Zeihan) to be…

Odd plan. The invasion is at, what, ~500k casualties? This also assumes massive assimilation.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#664

Post by downut »

mlrtime wrote: post #322
flanked-evergl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US has relevant party that is now openly pro-Putin What relevant party in the US is openly pro-Putin?

There is none, it is 100% rhetoric. When AOC says "Eat the rich" , do people think she literally wants the masses to go find the nearest billionaire and start cannibalism? Trump thinks that the US pays too much into NATO and others not enough. This his tactic for getting other countries to pay more for the security we all enjoy which isn't free. I'm not a Trump fan but I see through his words to his tactics.

The MAGAts in the House from the Speaker on down are blocking all Ukrainian aid concretely, not rhetorically. That's literally pro-Putin, and it comes 100% at the direction of the leader of the MAGAts.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#665

Post by lo_zamoyski »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #93

The (small) upside of all this missery, death and pain is Europe will lose some territory but gain it's own military security after decades of living from the US strategy alignment. Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict [0]. The US lost all it's t…

> Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict

Other pluses: American equipment is expensive. The recent purchase from S. Korea is significantly cheaper and IIRC entails a partnership agreement that requires that at least some of the manufacturing happens domestically in Poland. This allows the S. Korean defense industry to establish a base of operation in Europe. Also, the Polish armed forces have been investing in a diversity of equipment (American, EU, S. Korean, and domestic) for some time, which, of course, means they're not too dependent on a single country.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#666

Post by cooper_ganglia »

Lutger wrote: post #649
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“America bad” is the opium of the masses. IMO, if any random country’s government whom we are not allied with through NATO publicly criticizes the USA’s response to helping them out in a war that we have no obligation to help with, I believe we should immediately cease any and all financial aid and let them feel the squeeze. When they publicly apologize and recognize that the United States is truly the only thing kee…

It is not about what America has or hasn't done, good or bad, but all about the possibility of Trump. The idea of the US getting a president as immature as yourself, who rather aligns himself with the gangsters of the world, whose idea of diplomacy is beg-for-mercy-who-is-your-daddy-now oneliners, that is what scares Europa into self-reliance. Since Trump, the US might not be the US anymore in the future. It might br…

I didn’t like him as president, but he was entirely right about that. Any president would be, regardless of their politics. As bluntly as possible:

Keep your promises, and we will keep ours. But if you fail to keep yours, I do not believe we have any obligation to fulfill ours, even if it leads to loss of life. That’s not immaturity, that is the most basic, foundational tenets of a pact.

Europe constantly fails to meet the requirements across multiple agreements, wether that’s defense spending, carbon emissions, or whatever else, but the second that the U.S. slightly slows down on handing out free cash to anyone who asks, we are a horrible, evil “mafia” country. It would be laughable if it weren’t so depressing.

Ironically, more countries in NATO are meeting their 2% defense spending bill than ever before, because of a possible Trump presidency on the horizon. They know there’s a chance US funding gets rug-pulled, so they’re actually taking their defense spending seriously. Precisely because he is a poor, unpredictable leader, a Trump presidency is ironically what will save Europe from themselves.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#667

Post by za3faran »

lordfrito wrote: post #105

If you believe the western media, the west no longer believes in or upholds its values, and watches while Russia pushes westward while China builds up a military and eyes Taiwan, both more than happy to destabilize the middle east in pursuit of their goals. The west needs to wake up, we're slowly sliding towards a world conflict. This is going to get worse before it gets better. Edit: Russia is pushing westward not e…

> both more than happy to destabilize the middle east in pursuit of their goals

As if the west hasn't already destabilized the middle east for many decades now.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#668

Post by the_why_of_y »

docmars wrote: post #563
suoduandao3 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending a lot is not a badge of honor in an asymmetric conflict. If the US was spending more efficiently than Russia the way it did in Afghanistan, this would be sending a message to the next Putin that invading one's neighbors is a losing proposition. The US's economy suffering more than Russia's sends the opposite message.

[flagged]

If US Congress decides to spend 1 billion USD on weapons for Ukraine, they will not wire 1 billion USD to a bank account in Ukraine.

The US government will give > 900 million USD to US companies that build weapons in factories in the US, employing US workers who spend their salary in the US economy, boosting it.

The US government will also spend a couple million USD to transport the weapons produced in the US to Ukraine.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#669

Post by cglace »

lm28469 wrote: post #180
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia really is not to be feared. The Ukraine war is a tragedy and I hope it ends soon. But they have no economical & military power to really do any harm the Europe & the US. Putin makes a lot of noise but really can't even win a few km's in Ukraine. But the real threat is further east. China is slowly building it's empire, and it's a scary one. Taking over parts of Africa. Migrating it's people. Integrating it's t…

> can't even win a few km's in Ukraine. And the US couldn't win against a few thousand goat farmers with Ak47s, or maybe there this is a bit more complex...

The US occupied the country for 20 years. Staying just became unpopular. The US lost about as many troops in 20 years as Russia loses in 2 days of fighting in Ukraine.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#670

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #625
cglace wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

“America bad” is the opium of the masses. IMO, if any random country’s government whom we are not allied with through NATO publicly criticizes the USA’s response to helping them out in a war that we have no obligation to help with, I believe we should immediately cease any and all financial aid and let them feel the squeeze. When they publicly apologize and recognize that the United States is truly the only thing kee…

This is exactly why “America is bad” is such a common opinion.

The preferred response of many of its citizens and politicians, is to prove the critics right with no thought of how that affects the world. This vindictive idea is worthy of a 4 year old child that doesn’t know any better.

And I bet you think that the US never benefited from being the world police. You think that the only super power in the world projecting influence all over the globe was all done out of the goodness of their hearts?

Despite much criticism, the US was the country most democracies looked up to or followed. It’s sad and quite worrying for the world that we’re now seeing the end of that.

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