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Alexei Navalny has died

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lukashenko taking over Russia is the funniest take I’ve heard about him

Remember at the time his competition was Yeltsin

An here they are in 1997 signing the founding treaty of the Russia-Belarusian Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State#/media/File:RIAN_a...

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#592

I love how naive and gullible most people can be... Just google past the first result and you'll see that he is a carbon copy of putin - they are literally the two sides of the same coin. His personal views were perfectly in line with the russian leadership for the past 300 years: believed in imperialism and ethnic superiority. He played opposition for one reason and one reason alone: personal gains. He softened down…

He should not have been murdered in a Russian prison. But if he would have somehow become the ruler of Russia, he would have had to been ruthless or be toppled by someone else. The system in Russia can't be changed by one man on the top. That's like imagining a mafia could suddenly be transformed into a an open and democratic organization.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#593
post #36

His death was certain the moment he went back to Russia. He should have stayed back in some European country and continued the fight.

The contrast with an earlier Russian revolutionary, Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, better known as Lenin, bears reflection. Lenin went into exile in Munich, London, and Geneva from 1900--1905, returning to Russia for a 2005 revolution, then living in exile again during the First World War.

Navalny all but certainly was aware of his likely martyrdom, and appears to have won that. I have my doubts that he will be more effective as a martyr than he would have been acting in exile. In addition to whatever organisation remains, he does leave both a wife and daughter, though whether or not they'll carry on his fight I don't know.

The news today is not unexpected, but disappointing all the same.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#594
post #394
post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

Sad reality, from the pov of their neighbors, is that russian regime change wouldn't really change much on their side. As much as it is incomprehensible for America, there are societies that do not value freedom from the very bottom to the very top - and Russia is one of them

>>... that russian regime change wouldn't really change much on their side. there is more to this. The power there is usurped by a group of KGB officers, and they control all the government and power branches, etc (including even russian orthodox church). Any hypothetical elected outsider as a president will be coerced into doing what they demand. Anyone non-compliant will be eliminated.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#595

I love how naive and gullible most people can be... Just google past the first result and you'll see that he is a carbon copy of putin - they are literally the two sides of the same coin. His personal views were perfectly in line with the russian leadership for the past 300 years: believed in imperialism and ethnic superiority. He played opposition for one reason and one reason alone: personal gains. He softened down…

I haven’t looked hard into this issue but that’s the more likely explanation in these kinds of situations. So you have a terrible kind-of dictator and you have a seemingly charismatic opposition. In a country stereo-typically ruled or co-ruled by oligarchs. What’s the most likely explanation? That the opposition is a selfless saint who only wants to liberate Russia (or tone it down to: wants reform, democracy, is kin…

That's what I mean by naive. I doubt you'd find anyone from a country that was a member of the Warsaw pact with a functioning brain that would disagree with me. I'm saying that being a representative myself. And you really don't have to look all that far to see that what I said about him is true: being the other side of the same coin. Literally a few scrolls down the results page on google and you find this [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT0tCSaWZ9Q

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why he went back to Russia.

I have held the exact same question. I don't say this lightly. His decision was stupid. He would've been much more effective as a critic with a Twitter account. You can't criticize the government when you're not free to do so.

Have you heard the metaphor of the chicken and the pig at breakfast time?

I could probably stand in the Krasnaya Ploshchad and yell "Vladimir Zelenskiy Sucks!" without repercussion, but that wouldn't make it effective criticism.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#597
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain he knew this, but did it anyways. If anything, it'll make him a martyr who died in their home country, still fighting, rather than someone who is trying to run away and fueling the opponent's arguments. Still sucks it had to come to this. But I agree, this wasn't the unexpected outcome.

Unfortunately, a martyr in Western countries only. I doubt his death will be discussed in Russian's media.

This is #1 topic in Russia right now. Even some state media outlets report on this.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#598

I love how naive and gullible most people can be... Just google past the first result and you'll see that he is a carbon copy of putin - they are literally the two sides of the same coin. His personal views were perfectly in line with the russian leadership for the past 300 years: believed in imperialism and ethnic superiority. He played opposition for one reason and one reason alone: personal gains. He softened down…

He should not have been murdered in a Russian prison. But if he would have somehow become the ruler of Russia, he would have had to been ruthless or be toppled by someone else. The system in Russia can't be changed by one man on the top. That's like imagining a mafia could suddenly be transformed into a an open and democratic organization.

Assuming anyone wants to change it to begin with. You know the 5 monkeys experiment? In reality, russia is simply a large scale version of it - "this is how it is and the way it's always been".

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources? In the following wikipedia article Russia's murder rate is near the world's avearage, close to the US, and 8 times lower than Jamaika. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intenti...

There is some reason to disbelieve the official numbers. They started dropping rapidly under Putin, while the number of unidentified bodies processed by the health system climbed more or less identically: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/russia-is-not-actually-a-very-...

What are the sources of the alternative numbers? (Up to Jamaika, 83%, more than 60 percent, etc).

As for the rates raising in 90-ies and then falling back down, that's understandable, if you know what were the 90-ies there. The same happened in all other post Soviet states.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#600

The (small) upside of all this missery, death and pain is Europe will lose some territory but gain it's own military security after decades of living from the US strategy alignment. Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict [0]. The US lost all it's t…

There was never any chance that the US would fund Ukraine indefinitely. NATO countries arent going to do a 180 based on this. Perhaps they will start contributing the amount towards NATO that they themselves pledged though.
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