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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#691

Post by dagmx »

hu3 wrote: post #685
dagmx wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple FAQ itself answers the second side of this. If a browser can add PWA, they can claim they’re installing an app, and it would not be clear to a user that they have a web app, not an isolated app. Now, none of these pseudo apps are guaranteed to be sandboxed from each other but the user cannot differentiate between apps that do provide security.

> Now, none of these pseudo apps are guaranteed to be sandboxed from each other... Except they are! Any browser worth their salt have been doing isolation since the dawn of time. Or do you really think bing.com can manipulate google.com cookies and storage?

Your qualifier is the issue: “Any browser worth their salt”

Yes, a good browser does. But you’re still leaving it up to each individual implementation, and the DMA rules that Apple cannot judge accordingly.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#692

Post by chrisjj »

rmbyrro wrote: post #635
beeboobaa wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absolute crock of shit. Someone at apple must be feeling really, really pathetic lately. Why can't they just get over themselves and actually deliver a useful product instead of trying to achieve cult status?

I dislike how Apple is evolving as an evil corporate, but they seem to have a real security and privacy concern on this issue.

> I dislike how Apple is evolving as an evil corporate, but they seem to have a real security and privacy concern on this issue

Evil does indeed lead to real security and privacy concerns.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#693

Post by dagmx »

survirtual wrote: post #641
dagmx wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple FAQ itself answers the second side of this. If a browser can add PWA, they can claim they’re installing an app, and it would not be clear to a user that they have a web app, not an isolated app. Now, none of these pseudo apps are guaranteed to be sandboxed from each other but the user cannot differentiate between apps that do provide security.

PWAs adhere to the same-origin policy, and all browser security policies associated. This means isolated storage (indexed db & local storage), isolated permissions, etc. Every modern browser has support for this. One webpage accessing the resources and data of another webpage is among the most basic of things globally known to be disallowed. This sandboxing reasoning is extremely bad faith.

Your argument hinges on a browser being a good citizen. The DMA makes no such requirement.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#694

Post by seba_dos1 »

oarsinsync wrote: post #503
Dylan16807 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Every conforming cable supports 3 amps and 20 volts. If you think something's incorrect with that, be specific . But the spec is pretty clear. The exact details of the faster cables are murky because there's old and new versions of that section of the spec, but very few devices use enough power to care about that.

> Every conforming cable The problem is all the non-conforming cables that people have, that look exactly the same as conforming cables.

In this particular context, a "non-conforming" cable would cause troubles by starting fire or dropping voltage below usable range, not by limiting charging current. The only sane thing to do with such cables is to throw them away.

Really, we're talking about physically broken cables here. As long as there's electrical connection, there's no other way for a cable to not work at 3A/60W with USB PD. Its cable requirements only start when you want to go higher than that - and 60W is plenty of power already.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#695

Post by browningstreet »

So many laypeople that I know don’t even use bookmarks.

I’m a Linux geek with macOS and Windows in the house and I’ve never used a PWA.

I just can’t get excited over this one.. technical, political.. Apple is doing what I’d expect from a company being told how to build and change their product.

And since I don’t want to live in a Dell world running Windows paired to an Android phone of any kind, I personally am inclined to give them a pass on their obstinance. There’s very little in the tech world that runs as cleanly as iOS on an iPhone.

(And yes I’d love to run Linux on my mobile desktop but it’s all really terrible and not even close to a whisper of a starter. And I’ve tried them all.)

Not an Apple apologizer, just ranking them against the performance and quality of the alternatives.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#696

Post by seba_dos1 »

oarsinsync wrote: post #666
geoelectric wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they were responding to a comment criticizing USB-C PD as a standard. Non-standard cables are irrelevant to that discussion.

> We can't expect normal people to understand why there are a dozen different cable types that all have the same tip but charge at vastly different rates Is the part of the GP comment I was responding to. The connectors form part of the standard. There’s no way to identify a standards-conforming cable from a non-standards-conforming cable by looking at it. They all look the same.

This applies to any kind of cable. How can you tell that a HDMI cable isn't empty inside, missing all its wires? It looks the same!

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#697

Post by giantrobot »

tsimionescu wrote: post #561
giantrobot wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is obliged to obey anything but the letter of the law. If you want someone to obey the spirit of a law you need to put that in the letter.

That is completely wrong. Judges very much care about the spirit of the law, and frequently discuss it in their decisions, both in common law jurisdictions and in other systems. The justice system is not a computer following logical instructions.

Judges can talk about the spirit of the law all they want. If they don't base decisions on the letter of it they'll set themselves up to be overruled on appeal. Prosecutors also can't bring up charges on violating the spirit of a law.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#698

Post by chrisjj »

aetherspawn wrote: post #205

I am on Apples side here. I have been a macOS and iPhone user for over a decade now, but have had Android devices and I use Windows for games and work. I think what the EU has done to Apple is unfair. It is unfortunate in my opinion that they can’t just tell them to get stuffed. They have had to build probably 100-million LOCs just so EU have the right to pick their own browser, and yet Safari works just fine. In fac…

> Their core strategy has always been to keep cost low by supporting one hardware, one browser engine, one App Store.

No-one is asking them to support more than one browser engine or App Store.

Just to stop blocking them

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#699

Post by matheusmoreira »

JayPalm wrote: post #516
matheusmoreira wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the only problem were "Apple doesn't give you the keys", then competition is a solution. A solution. The solution is to make them to do what's good for us by force of law. We can't afford to wait a century for some open mobile hardware platform to become available to us. We want good products now . Apple computers are good products and we should have every right to run whatever software we want on them now . The…

Do you not consider the software part of the product? By any reasonable measure, the software is the product, and the hardware enables that product to operate.

> Do you not consider the software part of the product?

No.

> By any reasonable measure, the software is the product, and the hardware enables that product to operate.

That's what they want people to believe. It's actually just a general purpose computer. They put "IP" on it and suddenly they own it forever and control everything people do and if you resist it's felony contempt of business model.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#700

Post by chrisjj »

alex_suzuki wrote: post #617
chocoboaus2 wrote: post #260

Red rag to a bull The EU is going to absolutely see this as Apple spitting in its face.

You're counting on EU regulators understanding what a PWA is, and how it is a potential threat to Apple's walled garden. I think that's being optimistic.

Well, thanks to Apple, those regulators have only to read the national news.
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