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Alexei Navalny has died

reuters.com

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#351

Post by empath-nirvana »

slashdev wrote: post #341
KingOfCoders wrote: post #93

The (small) upside of all this missery, death and pain is Europe will lose some territory but gain it's own military security after decades of living from the US strategy alignment. Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict [0]. The US lost all it's t…

[flagged]

> Western powers were wrong to encourage Ukraine to fight Russia instead of agreeing to ceasefire terms.

This is not what happened. The US, in fact, tried to get Zelensky to flee and told them that they were going to lose and didn't really offer any aid until _after_ Ukraine fought Russia to a standstill. There have never been any ceasefire terms from Russia. Which has, FWIW been fighting in Ukraine since 2014.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#352

Post by yakito »

joakleaf wrote: post #185
cglace wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

Not sure about the US providing more funding (especially not by a large margin): This chart shows EU outspending the US. https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-huma... .

does anyone know how much Russia has spent so far in the war?

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#353

Post by AlecSchueler »

slashdev wrote: post #341
KingOfCoders wrote: post #93

The (small) upside of all this missery, death and pain is Europe will lose some territory but gain it's own military security after decades of living from the US strategy alignment. Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict [0]. The US lost all it's t…

[flagged]

It's just called Ukraine fwiw.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#354

Post by selimthegrim »

TomK32 wrote: post #213
cglace wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

Funding to Ukraine is even more complicated than most people realize. A massive amount of the money spent for weapons to be delivered to Ukraine is produced outside Ukraine in the US, EU etc. In cases where existing vehicles and ammunition is sent it is also an opportunity for all donors to modernize their vehicles and ammunition by replacing the donated ones with new ones.

The money is produced or the weapons?

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#355

Post by secondary_op »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #141
vaylian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they have no economical & military power to really do any harm the Europe & the US. Putin makes a lot of noise but really can't even win a few km's in Ukraine. Let's see how the situation in Avdiivka develops in the next few weeks. Ukraine is reinforcing the area, but it doesn't look good. We've seen plenty of blunders by the russian army. But you should not underestimate your enemy.

Avdiivka will fall next week. Putin (and the Russian (leaderhsip) culture in general, see Stalin) is this: What are a 100M (of our) people dead if we own Ukraine/Baltics/East Poland/Georgia/... for the next hundreds of years? Stalin had the same blunders, thats priced in, the Red Army had meat wave attacks in WW2 and lost millions, but achived all it's war goals (Poland, Baltics, Eastern Europe including half of Germ…

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#356

Post by danmaz74 »

actionfromafar wrote: post #181
neuronic wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen to internal speeches by Putin or Xi, they are often available on YouTube. We are not slowly sliding towards a world conflict, it has already begun and we are hopeless to stop it. It is arrogant to ignore or dismiss the happenings. Things were set in motion years ago and they are slowly unraveling. When the West rejected Russia's deeper integration into its structures after the Cold War ended and expanded NATO…

What deeper integration would that have been? Geniunely curious, I don't see what could have worked once the oligarchs were minted. They only care about selling simple low-effort stuff, easily corrupted, like oil.

Putin has pushing this lie that he tried to get closer to NATO and was rebuffed for a long time, but it's simply not true. His ideology has always been completely against being junior partner in a US led alliance.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#357

Post by wyldfire »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #306
jacquesm wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their eyes it makes Putin more , not less attractive because that's how they view their own little power fantasies: to do away with their enemies, real and perceived. It's not as if we collectively refused to do business with the murderer (correction, butcher) of a journalist in a f'ing embassy. That stood pretty much unchallenged besides some finger wagging.

[flagged]

No, this refers to US ignoring KSA/Mohammed bin Salman killing and dismembering Jamal Khashoggi.

From [1]:

> [Trump said] "it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn't ... In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia." Two days later, Trump denied that the CIA had even reached a conclusion.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi#U.S._response

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#358

Post by SXX »

yolo3000 wrote: post #337
SXX wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you want to world to do? Support Ukraine more. Support refugees from Russia. Enact personal sanctions against 6000 war-enablers that Navalny team prepared: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6000_List And their families and kids who all keep their money in US, UK and EU.

Refugees from Russia? They are free to travel to many countries, there are plenty of Russian expats in Europe, who also happen to support Putin

There are a lot of political immigrants from Russia as well as people who trying to avoid being drawn into army. And for people who left Russia back in 2022 it's just basically impossible to get any visas anywhere simply because you can't apply for one outside of Russia without having some other residency permit that' impossible to get in Georgia / Turkey and many other countries.

EU still provide visas to tons of people who continue to live in Russia and pay taxes in Russia, but dont give any visas to people who left and dont support Putins regime.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#359

Post by maratc »

sidibe wrote: post #256
maratc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once Putin is gone, someone else is going to take his place. There won't be much difference between Putin and the other guy, and that (small) difference may be for the better or it may be for the worse. Putin is not in that place because he's somehow an extremely talented (or extremely lucky) person. Putin is there because that's what most of the Russian elite wants. Once he's gone, the Russian elite will put there s…

I think this paints a picture of oligarchy that might have been true when he first came to power but the tail is now wagging the dog. In fact it's not even the same dog the elites and billionaires of Russia now are childhood friends of Putin, people who worked with him in KGB or St Petersburg mayors office, the chef at a restaurant he frequented (RIP), etc. I'm sure any of the original Russian elites left that weren'…

> I'm sure any of the original Russian elites left that weren't brought in by Putin regret him being put there would secretly love to see him gone

Any elites that are there since before Putin, of whom there was notably more in 2012, could simply nominate someone else for the elections in 2012, or failing that, just keep that Medvedev guy for the second term. For some reason, they decided to move Medvedev away and put Putin back.

I am afraid that the set "any of the original Russian elites... that weren't brought in by Putin [and] regret him being put there" is an empty one.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#360

Post by slashdev »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #351
slashdev wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Western powers were wrong to encourage Ukraine to fight Russia instead of agreeing to ceasefire terms. This is not what happened. The US, in fact, tried to get Zelensky to flee and told them that they were going to lose and didn't really offer any aid until _after_ Ukraine fought Russia to a standstill. There have never been any ceasefire terms from Russia. Which has, FWIW been fighting in Ukraine since 2014.

That was early on. Later on, when there was a potential ceasefire deal on the table, the West, especially Boris Johnson, advised Ukraine not to accept it. Look it up.

> Russia was ready to end the war and withdraw its troops in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality just a few months after the invasion began and was refused partly because of ex-British PM Boris Johnson, who pressured Kyiv into continuing the fight, David Arahamiya, the leader of Ukraine’s ruling party confirmed in a recent interview, published on Friday, November 24th.

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