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Alexei Navalny has died

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#171

Post by PedroBatista »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #56

The brave denizens of the Internet love to ridicule Russians for their learned helplessness, calling them weak, docile, etc. Well, here's another example of the thing that most of those who grew up in that culture know or feel subliminally: the hero always crushes evil and triumphs at the end of the story. But in real life, for every success there are thousands that wither along the way.

> Russians for their learned helplessness, calling them weak, docile, etc.

"learned helplessness" yes

"calling them weak, docile, etc." - I'm not aware of this going on in any meaningful scale.

About the "learned helplessness" and general apathy it's true and the product of many things, one of them a very targeted effort to make the people internalize this during a whole century. China is very similar in this regard too.

All those "decadent" western democracies went through periods of very violent internal wars, centuries of constant internal "cold wars" where the main objective was "democracy" that includes many things like separation of State/Justice/Free Speech, a minimum standard of living ( not just economic ) that society itself does not tolerate existing below that, etc. I'm talking about the real practical thing, not the "cerimonies" or the theatrical plays of "democracy" authoritarian regimes like to show.

Russia never had that, it had a lot of violence, but for other reasons. One of the main one is Imperialism.

"Russia" in reality is pretty much just Moscow and nearby lands, but Russians have imperialism in their psyche. That's why the Baltics, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, etc are considered "brother" nations. Because most people in Russia would see no problem if they were somehow "peacefully" integrated in Russia.

But when it comes to pay the price, Russians are "apathetic" because even with all those big speeches and grandiose imperial ego, they know anyone who shows initiative becomes a target.

I don't think it will happen anytime soon, but the best thing to happen to Russia would be to breakup in other states as much as this stupid brutality has been to keep it's internal integrity. That's also why they are always inventing evil external enemies.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#172

Post by hurflmurfl »

richrichie wrote: post #122

[flagged]

Not sure if you're just trying to troll, but you don't get elected into any Duma if you're from the opposition.

In fact I don't remember there being any real (elected) opposition in Russia, the "multiple parties" have always just been a theater. Like maybe some of the smaller parties would sometimes manage to push some insignificant agenda, but the important issues would always be controlled by the actual leadership in power.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#173

Post by luch »

cglace wrote: post #144
KingOfCoders wrote: post #93

The (small) upside of all this missery, death and pain is Europe will lose some territory but gain it's own military security after decades of living from the US strategy alignment. Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict [0]. The US lost all it's t…

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

Honestly what's the difference whether it's POTUS or Congress blocking the bill ? The writing on the wall is here: if Russia invades Poland, NATO article 5 or not the US will not go into full blown war with Russia.

And honestly it was the European's fault to believe in this pipe dream.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#174

Post by flanked-evergl »

timeon wrote: post #49
merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

> west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior Also slowly folding. It is not happening only in little countries like Slovakia. US has relevant party that is now openly pro-Putin.

> US has relevant party that is now openly pro-Putin

What relevant party in the US is openly pro-Putin?

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#175

Post by maratc »

mittermayr wrote: post #48

I often wonder what Russia will be like once Putin is gone. The time he has left can't be very long, so what happens then?

Once Putin is gone, someone else is going to take his place. There won't be much difference between Putin and the other guy, and that (small) difference may be for the better or it may be for the worse.

Putin is not in that place because he's somehow an extremely talented (or extremely lucky) person. Putin is there because that's what most of the Russian elite wants. Once he's gone, the Russian elite will put there somebody else who will fit them the most. It would not be reasonable to expect any drastic difference given the unchanging circumstances.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#176

Post by lordfrito »

kemotep wrote: post #147
lordfrito wrote: post #105

If you believe the western media, the west no longer believes in or upholds its values, and watches while Russia pushes westward while China builds up a military and eyes Taiwan, both more than happy to destabilize the middle east in pursuit of their goals. The west needs to wake up, we're slowly sliding towards a world conflict. This is going to get worse before it gets better. Edit: Russia is pushing westward not e…

How do you propose the west avoids conflict with Russia and China? Is there any examples in history of appeasement leading to less bloodshed?

I'm not sure we can avoid conflict now, I think we're past the point where that was possible (last 10-15 years were critical). I think both Russia and China understand that, and are planning accordingly.

I'm proposing we wake up and start doing the same, planning and drawing "do not cross" lines in the sand to hopefully limit the total/final scope of the conflict.

Yes this will force an earlier confrontation -- but WWII would have been a lot less bloody if Europe had stood up to Hitler earlier -- problem was everyone thought that appeasing him would make things better.

It's clear both Russia and China can't be appeased at this point. Both need to be checked.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#177

Post by tokai »

cglace wrote: post #144
KingOfCoders wrote: post #93

The (small) upside of all this missery, death and pain is Europe will lose some territory but gain it's own military security after decades of living from the US strategy alignment. Countries like Poland will no longer buy US weapons but increase European defense spending - they fear just like Ukraine that US congress just turns around and will stop delivering parts for F-35s in a conflict [0]. The US lost all it's t…

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

That is a lie. EU and European countries has given more than double that of the US.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#178

Post by cglace »

egisspegis wrote: post #164
cglace wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

> The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin This is not true for some time now. First google result (but there are more charts, numbers and sources): https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s... Yet whoever provided more aid is irrelevant, since it's not enough anyway. We, as a world, are observing (and doing nothing, for the most part) fourth reich comin…

It looks like your charts include things like refugee aid costs, which make up a large percentage of European aid. If you remove these costs and go strictly by military support, which is what we are talking about, then my point stands.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#179

Post by funcDropShadow »

kemotep wrote: post #147
lordfrito wrote: post #105

If you believe the western media, the west no longer believes in or upholds its values, and watches while Russia pushes westward while China builds up a military and eyes Taiwan, both more than happy to destabilize the middle east in pursuit of their goals. The west needs to wake up, we're slowly sliding towards a world conflict. This is going to get worse before it gets better. Edit: Russia is pushing westward not e…

How do you propose the west avoids conflict with Russia and China? Is there any examples in history of appeasement leading to less bloodshed?

GP wasn't talking about appeasement. The west has to make sure, that it is not a winning option to attack it.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#180

Post by lm28469 »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #106
merpkz wrote: post #41

So in latest news, last opposition figure in Russia dies together with any hope for regime change while Russia's war effort is starting to get some traction with it's overwhelming man power and Ukraine is forced to cede more territory all while west is busy either with it's in-fighting or comparing each others superior GDP and how Russia will crumble just any day now (TM). Man, are we in for a ride next decade in Eur…

Russia really is not to be feared. The Ukraine war is a tragedy and I hope it ends soon. But they have no economical & military power to really do any harm the Europe & the US. Putin makes a lot of noise but really can't even win a few km's in Ukraine. But the real threat is further east. China is slowly building it's empire, and it's a scary one. Taking over parts of Africa. Migrating it's people. Integrating it's t…

> can't even win a few km's in Ukraine.

And the US couldn't win against a few thousand goat farmers with Ak47s, or maybe there this is a bit more complex...

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