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Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

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Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#451

Post by CoolCold »

indigodaddy wrote: post #304
ironmagma wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking with things that don't update often, we just get used to the broken parts. People learned to save every five minutes in Maya since the app crashes so often, for example. Every now and then, a PuTTY session will fill the screen with "PuTTYPuTTYPuTTYPuTTYPuTTY[...]" but it's been that way for at least 20 years, so it's not that remarkable.

When I was in Systems/Linux Operations you wouldn’t believe how many tickets from other internal teams we supported that said “Putty is down” in the title. It never ceased to make me chuckle every single time.

if not a secret, where have you moved to and why, is it better/worse?

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#452

Post by CoolCold »

toast0 wrote: post #390
baq wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference in 2024 is that windows ships openssh client and server as a built-in optional component and it also ships a workable terminal emulator. No WSL needed in either case. (But yeah I'm still using putty, too)

Microsoft stopped shipping HyperTerminal, last I checked. It wasn't really worth the effort to make it do SSH. I'm not really a fan of cmd or powershell, although I guess I could use them in a pinch. Wouldn't look like what I'm used to though. :p

HyperTerminal is for greybeards :)

What was meant is Windows Terminal

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#453

Post by HackerThemAll »

Rapzid wrote: post #243
spicykraken wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta pay the bills somehow

Maybe a coop of sorts could be formed where they pull in funds from sponsorships. A non-profit maybe. Devs could "lease" themselves to corporate sponsors and work on the project + some percentage time towards features they need. Sponsored development.. IDK could be a way to do it, pay the bills and some, and also limit the negative impacts public business or VC funded growth startup.

That doesn't work. For example Apple, benefiting from FreeBSD Foundation's work, never gave back any single penny to them, never sponsored any project within the Foundation. 1 million a year would mean a world to the Foundation, and would be less than a rounding error in Apple balance sheet.

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#454

Post by CoolCold »

n_plus_1_acc wrote: post #321
laxis96 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Windows does not have a good SSH implementation and PuTTY has always worked extremely well for me as a serial and SSH terminal (also, it starts up instantly and never crashed on me). Are there any better alternatives?

Many people I know just use SSH from the WSL CLI.

I do like 99% of the time and in quite specific cases from the host machine (Windows native openssh) - mainly due to my environment is in WSL in terms of dotfiles, cmd line prompt, shell history and so on.

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#455

Post by CoolCold »

baq wrote: post #330
toast0 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putty met my needs in 2004 and my needs haven't changed. It still works as good in 2024. I'm not 100% sure when I started using putty, but I definitely used it in 2004. I still need a ssh client and terminal emulator for Windows. I still don't want to install a unix like environment just to have a terminal. I still don't want tabs in my terminal, lots of windows works just fine. I still need X11 forwarding so I can r…

The difference in 2024 is that windows ships openssh client and server as a built-in optional component and it also ships a workable terminal emulator. No WSL needed in either case. (But yeah I'm still using putty, too)

I've started to dropping of Putty since WSL1 and later native openssh-client landed into Windows. I was missing ability to use ~/.ssh/config - comparing to Putty's GUI way of changing things, especially en-masse, like updating JumpHost for 10+ servers (saved session in Putty terms) and no inheritance of options.

So I'm not using Putty since I guess ~ 2018 or so. Not insisting other should stop using it, of course.

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#456

Post by Kwpolska »

fiscalnonsense wrote: post #440
stemc43 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not sure how much leg he has to stand on for using the word nginx itself in the new product’s name and domain pretty sure they can't really do anything to him in Russia. Russia and US don't recognize each others patents, same as China.

nginx is simultaneously a registered trademark of F5 and imnsho mouth garbage for English speakers. This is a good opportunity to rename the project.

It's pronounced "engine X".

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#457

Post by GoblinSlayer »

dspillett wrote: post #273
arp242 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Denial of service" is never a security bug; it's a huge mistake people have started classifying these things as such to start with. Serious bug? Sure. Loss of security? Not really.

> "Denial of service" is never a security bug That very much depends on what service is being denied. Nginx is _everywhere_. While not a direct security concern for nginx (instead an availablity issue) it could have security or safety implications for wider systems. What if knocking out nginx breaks a service for logging & monitoring security information? Or an ambulance call out management system? Or a payment progr…

In those cases you just know that any problem can cause you trouble, so you pay attention to all problems including low severity ones like DoS, performance slowdowns or lack of bells and whistles.

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#458

Post by GoblinSlayer »

e12e wrote: post #380
arp242 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Denial of service" is never a security bug; it's a huge mistake people have started classifying these things as such to start with. Serious bug? Sure. Loss of security? Not really.

> "Denial of service" is never a security bug. What about serving certificate revocation list, with another system relying on say one day old cache? (Sure, that's "fail open" - but still...). Or proxying LDAP for sync to a central auth/authz system? Ed: proxy giving access to logging system goes down - alert on failed logins silenced, disabling rate limits for brute force attacks?

AFAIK, mandatory OCSP is turned off by default. Exactly because it fails regularly. Try to turn it on and see how it goes.

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#459

Post by gertrunde »

soupbowl wrote: post #410

Did we find out why the dev of freenginx did not want the nginx CVE that caused this fork? Some contex would be nice as it seems like a weird reason to fork.

IIRC from reading the post, the reasoning was that the bug was in a feature which was marked as experimental (HTTP/3).

Re: Freenginx: Core Nginx developer announces fork

#460

Post by nvarsj »

xorcist wrote: post #368
nvarsj wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nginx abruptly drops http/1.1 persistent connections on reloads. This has been an issue forever and Maxim refused to ever fix it, saying it was to spec (yes it was, but there are better ways to deal with it). It’s a reason why many large, modern infra deployments have moved away from nginx.

It doesn't drop it, it's just not persistent on reload, isn't that what you mean? Actually dropping a connection mid-request is something I haven't seen nginx (or indeed Apache) do for many years despite doing some weird things with it. I can see where you're coming from, but it's not unreasonable behaviour, is it? Connections needs to migrated over to the new worker and that's how all major servers do it. If that's…

It doesn't drop mid request. But it closes the TCP socket abruptly after any in flight requests are completed. Clients have no idea the connection is closed, and try to reuse it and get back a RST. In heavily dynamic environments where nginx reloads happen frequently, it leads to large amounts of RSTs/broken connections and high error rates (you can't necessarily auto-retry a POST, a RST could mean anything).

The sane approach is connection draining - you send a `connection: close` response header on the old worker, then finally remove any remaining idle connections at the end of the drain.

In http/2 it's not an issue as it has a way for the server to explicitly say the connection is closed.

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