How do batteries generate electricity?
By discharging energy when the grid operator calls for it, having charged when there was excess energy on the grid (typically what would’ve been wasted as curtailed renewables).
Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
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Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#62Look at the stock prices of the companies installing owning and operating solar and wind farms. They are dogshit. I think the boom is to capture the transmission system capacity near the best wind/solar sites, try and stay in business for the duration of the 20 year energy purchase agreement signed with local utility, and then mergers and aquisitions so that the larger entity can exert leverage upon renewal. Power ou…
Some important businesses are just terrible investments. Airlines come to mind; they always seem to be one minor downturn away from insolvency.
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#63I'm surprised that wind is such a small part of the US's projected future energy mix. Does anyone know why? Wind power works overnight, it leaves a lot more usable land than solar does, and there's a lot more capacity to be exploited. It's strange even considering the political backlash against wind power in some areas.
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#64This is nameplate capacity: the power a generator can deliver, full on, under ideal conditions. Solar and wind always look great when measured in nameplate capacity, which is why this is done. If you want to know how much electricity they will generate, you have to multiply by the capacity factor. Nuclear, for instance has a capacity factor of 0.9 in the US: it delivers 90% of its nameplate capacity in a given year.…
That’s not why it is done, it’s because this is reporting in capacity and that is the physical capacity being installed. That phrasing makes it sound nefarious, then you end with a fairly low solar range (which varies substantially and exceeds that in sunnier parts of the US). Bit of an odd take. You could say the same, or lower, of capacity factors on peaking oil or gas plants in some areas that run for only a coupl…
Why report on capacity instead of energy? Why would capacity matter at all?
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#65I'm surprised that wind is such a small part of the US's projected future energy mix. Does anyone know why? Wind power works overnight, it leaves a lot more usable land than solar does, and there's a lot more capacity to be exploited. It's strange even considering the political backlash against wind power in some areas.
Looking through LCOE+[^1] and references to old reports[^2], it looks like solar used to be significantly cheaper, and wind a surprising dip in cost last 12-18 months. It's now on par if not less for onshore wind across the board. [^1]
[^1] https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost....
[^2] https://www.quora.com/Which-is-more-expensive-to-build-wind-...
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#66This is nameplate capacity: the power a generator can deliver, full on, under ideal conditions. Solar and wind always look great when measured in nameplate capacity, which is why this is done. If you want to know how much electricity they will generate, you have to multiply by the capacity factor. Nuclear, for instance has a capacity factor of 0.9 in the US: it delivers 90% of its nameplate capacity in a given year.…
Why does nuclear not deliver closer to its ideal power output? Are nuclear plants really down 10% of the time?
Over their lifecycle they are down more like 20-25%.
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#67> Nuclear. Start-up of the fourth reactor (1.1 GW) at Georgia’s Vogtle nuclear power plant
I checked the Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Pla...
> Two additional units utilizing Westinghouse AP1000 reactors were under construction since 2009, with Unit 3 being completed in July 2023.[9][10][11] This last report blames the latest increase in costs on the contractor not completing work as scheduled. Another complicating factor in the construction process is the bankruptcy of Westinghouse in 2017.[12] In 2018 costs were estimated to be about $25 billion.[13] By 2021 they were estimated to be over $28.5 billion.[14] In 2023 costs had increased to $34 billion, with work still to be completed on Vogtle 4.[15]
Those numbers are simply mind blowing. Why are these still built? How much solar/wind/battery capacity can 34B USD buy!?
I feel the same about the two big nuke projects in the UK (Hinkley Point C & Sizewell C). It makes no sense compared to solar/wind/battery.
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#68That's nice, but there is a long way to go, also it would probably be better to see batteries as a part of the 'storage' bracket, after all the batteries don't generate electricity, they store it. It's a bit like lumping fields of grain in with bags for grain. The one is useful all by itself, the other can't function without some other generator doing its job first. Typically the use for storage in the form of batter…
> The one [solar] is useful all by itself Not in a power-grid context; it'll over-volt the grid sometimes and under-volt it other times. In the specific context of "understanding generation supply to a grid", working in terms of "load supplied by a system of solar & batteries" makes the math drastically simpler.
Every modern inverter respects the local grid regulations with respect to overvolting and undervolting isn't an issue at all and has in principle if it happens absolutely nothing to do with solar power.
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#69> Nuclear. Start-up of the fourth reactor (1.1 GW) at Georgia’s Vogtle nuclear power plant I checked the Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Pla... > Two additional units utilizing Westinghouse AP1000 reactors were under construction since 2009, with Unit 3 being completed in July 2023.[9][10][11] This last report blames the latest increase in costs on the contractor not completing wor…
> How much solar/wind/battery capacity can 34B USD buy!?
I'm guessing you'd run into space constraints pretty quickly. For one large project a nuclear reactor is incredibly compact compared to most alternatives except maybe hydro.
Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gemini took 2 years and cost $1.3B. Vogtle cost $34B for 2 units and took 12 years for those 2 units. Edit: Gemini took 4 years from project submission and 2 years from construction start. Vogtle took 19 years from project submission and 12 years from construction start.
In large part because of constantly shifting requirements, obstructionism, and various forms of lawfare. The US has become terribly inefficient at large infrastructural projects, see the CA HSR project which is massively delayed and over budget. China does not have this problem, and has been rapidly expanding their nuclear capacity. A standardized reactor design and regulatory certainty would enable the economies of…
> see the CA HSR project which is massively delayed and over budget
This is not a good parallel as the HSR's cost comes in large part from traversing many counties, municipalities, and private land.