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Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

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Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#81

Post by khokhol »

danbruc wrote: post #80
khokhol wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia attacking the rest of Europe is just fear mongering. Unfortunately this absolutely not the case, as applies to the Baltics and Moldova. The threat to those countries is very real.

What is the evidence for that?

Various menacing statements and border incidents over the years (including a cross-border kidnapping in Estonia a few years back); GRU sabotage incidents in Czechia and Romania; and most notably, ongoing occupation of a good chunk of Moldovan territory, in the form of the Kremlin-managed mafia state known as Transnistria.

Basically Putin's whole idea is that any place the Russian Empire (or its temporary proxy, the Soviet Union) sat on at one point or another in the past 350 years is fair game for re-occupation, vassalization and/or intimidation of some sort today.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#82

Post by danbruc »

poszlem wrote: post #76
danbruc wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany did not get what they wanted, Georgia and Ukraine got the Bucharest declaration that they will eventually become NATO members. Russia attacking the rest of Europe is just fear mongering.

Because Russians would never do that, right? Except perhaps for: Livonian War The Polish-Russian War of the 1600s The Great Northern War The Russo-Turkish Wars The Partitions of Poland The Crimean War The Winter War The Invasion of Czechoslovakia or some other

By that logic the European countries should also keep a close eye on Germany.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#83

Post by danbruc »

khokhol wrote: post #81
danbruc wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the evidence for that?

Various menacing statements and border incidents over the years (including a cross-border kidnapping in Estonia a few years back); GRU sabotage incidents in Czechia and Romania; and most notably, ongoing occupation of a good chunk of Moldovan territory, in the form of the Kremlin-managed mafia state known as Transnistria. Basically Putin's whole idea is that any place the Russian Empire (or its temporary proxy, the S…

The Eston Kohver kidnapping, an Estonian security service member kidnapped a few meters across the border and later exchanged for another Estonian that spyed for Russia. Shaddy business, sure, but nothing that says war with Estonia.

Sabotage in Czech Republic, the Vrbětice explosion? They blew up the ammunition stockpile of some weapons trader that intended to sell them to Ukraine. That does not seem directed at the Czech Republic.

Maybe I am missing something, but the history of Transnistria sound not unlike many other civil wars to me.

And just to be clear, I am not supporting Russia, but we have to be real and stick to the facts. False judgments - no matter whether it is making Russia more or less evil than it is - can lead to bad decisions. In my opinion a random assortment of incidents like the ones you named are hardly enough to draw the conclusion that Putin wants to reestablish the Soviet Union.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#84

Post by khokhol »

danbruc wrote: post #83
khokhol wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various menacing statements and border incidents over the years (including a cross-border kidnapping in Estonia a few years back); GRU sabotage incidents in Czechia and Romania; and most notably, ongoing occupation of a good chunk of Moldovan territory, in the form of the Kremlin-managed mafia state known as Transnistria. Basically Putin's whole idea is that any place the Russian Empire (or its temporary proxy, the S…

The Eston Kohver kidnapping, an Estonian security service member kidnapped a few meters across the border and later exchanged for another Estonian that spyed for Russia. Shaddy business, sure, but nothing that says war with Estonia. Sabotage in Czech Republic, the Vrbětice explosion? They blew up the ammunition stockpile of some weapons trader that intended to sell them to Ukraine. That does not seem directed at the…

It's all about connecting the dots, which are more than the sum of the parts. And taking into account the last 350 years of history. In this context, the above incidents (and the cat-and-mouse games with Sweden) can be seen as shots across the bow.

If you look at Transnistria, it's definitely not a random civil war, but very much a proxy conflict (like breakaway republics in Georgia, or what Russia was doing in Eastern Ukraine 2014-2022).

In my opinion a random assortment of incidents like the ones you named are hardly enough to draw the conclusion that Putin wants to reestablish the Soviet Union

The Soviet Union, no. But what he does want is as much re-establishment as possible of Russia's historical "sphere of influence", and in Putin's mind, of Russia's role as the protector of Slavic culture and Eastern Orthodox values.

There are plenty of statements in support of this, all over the place, and very easy to find.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#85

Post by 6th »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #69
jefftk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural gas is (mostly) methane, so a satellite looking for methane would include these.

Did you look at the map? I seriously doubt 16,000 natural gas leaks would be found via satellite. Some are even inside buildings.

Some leaks are impossible to rectify - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia4m0TANNWo

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#86

Post by danbruc »

khokhol wrote: post #84
danbruc wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Eston Kohver kidnapping, an Estonian security service member kidnapped a few meters across the border and later exchanged for another Estonian that spyed for Russia. Shaddy business, sure, but nothing that says war with Estonia. Sabotage in Czech Republic, the Vrbětice explosion? They blew up the ammunition stockpile of some weapons trader that intended to sell them to Ukraine. That does not seem directed at the…

It's all about connecting the dots, which are more than the sum of the parts. And taking into account the last 350 years of history. In this context, the above incidents (and the cat-and-mouse games with Sweden) can be seen as shots across the bow. If you look at Transnistria, it's definitely not a random civil war, but very much a proxy conflict (like breakaway republics in Georgia, or what Russia was doing in Easte…

Personally I think there is no convincing evidence that Russia has a desire to go to war against other countries in eastern Europe, but for the sake of argument I will grant you that. The thing is, just having a desire to go to war with some country is only the first step. Does Russia have the means to do it? Does Russia believe it could win the war? Could Russia win the war? Could they occupy and control the country for long enough that resistance would subside?

And maybe to add to the first point, sure, Russia certainly wants as much influence as it can get, but that is no different than every other country. There is of course a wide spectrum of means to achieve this, from economical cooperation, to supporting a coup d'état, to starting a war and a million things in between. Some we would consider legitimate, some not. That Russia would immediately jump to one of the most expensive options requiring a commitment for decades to succeed, that needs some pretty good evidence in my opinion.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#87

Post by khokhol »

danbruc wrote: post #86
khokhol wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about connecting the dots, which are more than the sum of the parts. And taking into account the last 350 years of history. In this context, the above incidents (and the cat-and-mouse games with Sweden) can be seen as shots across the bow. If you look at Transnistria, it's definitely not a random civil war, but very much a proxy conflict (like breakaway republics in Georgia, or what Russia was doing in Easte…

Personally I think there is no convincing evidence that Russia has a desire to go to war against other countries in eastern Europe, but for the sake of argument I will grant you that. The thing is, just having a desire to go to war with some country is only the first step. Does Russia have the means to do it? Does Russia believe it could win the war? Could Russia win the war? Could they occupy and control the country…

That Russia would immediately jump to one of the most expensive options requiring a commitment for decades to succeed, that needs some pretty good evidence in my opinion.

That they have done so already in Ukraine is all the evidence we need, in my opinion.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#88

Post by danbruc »

khokhol wrote: post #87
danbruc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think there is no convincing evidence that Russia has a desire to go to war against other countries in eastern Europe, but for the sake of argument I will grant you that. The thing is, just having a desire to go to war with some country is only the first step. Does Russia have the means to do it? Does Russia believe it could win the war? Could Russia win the war? Could they occupy and control the country…

That Russia would immediately jump to one of the most expensive options requiring a commitment for decades to succeed, that needs some pretty good evidence in my opinion. That they have done so already in Ukraine is all the evidence we need, in my opinion.

Only if you think that the goal of the invasion of Ukraine was to annex the entire country or bring it under permanent Russian control. I do not think that this is the case and that the reason of the invasion is solely or at least primarily to prevent NATO expansion into Ukraine. I think that is what essentially all the evidence indicates and that there is essentially no evidence that conquering Ukraine was the goal.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#89

Post by khokhol »

danbruc wrote: post #88
khokhol wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Russia would immediately jump to one of the most expensive options requiring a commitment for decades to succeed, that needs some pretty good evidence in my opinion. That they have done so already in Ukraine is all the evidence we need, in my opinion.

Only if you think that the goal of the invasion of Ukraine was to annex the entire country or bring it under permanent Russian control. I do not think that this is the case and that the reason of the invasion is solely or at least primarily to prevent NATO expansion into Ukraine. I think that is what essentially all the evidence indicates and that there is essentially no evidence that conquering Ukraine was the goal.

Only if you think that the goal of the invasion of Ukraine was to annex the entire country or bring it under permanent Russian control.

The entire country, no.

By all indications, they only wanted to annex about 60 percent of it -- including of course the capital, the entire Black Sea coast, and likely a good chunk of buffer territory. The remaining regions, being almost entirely non-Russian speaking, would have been left as battered rump state, to be perhaps dealt with later.

The goal was clearly and unambiguously to wipe independent Ukraine off the map, and to eliminate as many of the intelligentsia on its kill lists as it could find. The remaining population was to be forcibly expelled or assimilated, as has already happened in the occupied regions.

All of which, by their planning, would have been basically cakewalk, and over and done in a matter of weeks.

Whether they wanted to properly annex 60 percent or 100 percent of Ukrainian territory is irrelevant in this context - and basically amounts to splitting hairs.

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