Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would I care about "breaking the Unix way"?
Right. Why would one care about principles.
Do you care about my principles too? Mine don't involve a Unix philosophy.
Systemd by Example (2021)
91–100 of 115 posts
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would I care about "breaking the Unix way"?
It's outlined here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
I don't care about a 50 year old technology philosophy. Times have changed.
Cloud computing and the prevalence of highly distributed systems have completely changed how software is deployed, scaled, and managed. These environments often rely on complex orchestration which can stretch the boundaries of the UNIX philosophy towards systems that are more about interactions between distributed components than about simple, single-purpose tools.
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm always surprised by how many developers don't grok despite understanding significantly more complex things. You used git as a (counter?) example, but for me systemd has this issue because it's because I touch it so infrequently that whatever I learned about it has aged out of mental cache. I have the same issue with `jq`, GNU `parallel`, and `ffmpeg` (which I'll grant even if I used it daily I probably wouldn't…
how on earth is remembering the location of some log file, buried in /var/log somewhere, hopefully, or maybe next to the application in /etc/ or /opt/, easier than remembering journalctl -u unitfilename ? or journalctl -u unitfilename -f to follow the logs -- the very same flag tail uses? after a decade of systemd usage I've never once had to actually think about the format the logs are stored in, or where they're st…
> after a decade of systemd usage I've never once had to actually think about the format the logs are stored in, or where they're stored; journalctl is actually easier than using tail and cat
That's wonderful for you. For me, it is not.
Funny how people are different.
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> how on earth is remembering the location of some log file, buried in /var/log somewhere, hopefully, or maybe next to the application in /etc/ or /opt/, easier than remembering journalctl -u unitfilename ? This may seem obvious to you, but I for one find filenames much easier to remember. Of course the logs are inside /var/log (and not anywhere else). Moreover, with filenames, you can check your logs with a program…
That's the thing though, you have to remember filenames. I don't have to remember anything, just journalctl, because it can be run without any arguments and get logs for -everything that's running- including units I totally forgot about! More than once I've forgotten the name of some unit I wrote -- the same as I easily forget filenames for random services I've installed, and where I might have installed them. I can…
> you have to remember filenames.
You have to remember unit names. They're all just names.
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#95“Systemd .. reminds me of every overly convoluted script a junior coder has ever written”
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/bsunzw/systemd_vs_in...
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's outlined here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
I don't care about a 50 year old technology philosophy. Times have changed. Cloud computing and the prevalence of highly distributed systems have completely changed how software is deployed, scaled, and managed. These environments often rely on complex orchestration which can stretch the boundaries of the UNIX philosophy towards systems that are more about interactions between distributed components than about simple…
[deleted]
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#97I am not having a good time with systemd on my embedded device. Somewhat complicated scenario, I need to change the mode of a wifi driver (which I do via modprobe), use iw to create a second interface for that wifi device, and finally use networkmanager to create a wifi hotspot based on the host name of the device. We set the hostname based on the mac address of wlan0. There are a lot of places this can go wrong, and…
> I need to change the mode of a wifi driver (which I do via modprobe) Is that something that could be added to modprobe.conf to have it work right without any modprobe calls? > Huh, onehsot services are listed as stopped even though they've run. Do some research, find out I need the `RemainAfterExit` keyword yet. Sure, dependencies are working. Yeah I've also been burned not having RemainAfterExit=y in a oneshot uni…
>Is that something that could be added to modprobe.conf to have it work right without any modprobe calls?
Yes, that's how I do it. But that just switches the mode to one that supports virtual interfaces, I still need to add the virtual interface, and I can't do that in a modprobe conf.
>To be fair such race condition could have happened in any init system.
I feel like it's really easy to make that happen under systemd if you're not completely on the ball, where as it's more difficult in things like openrc.
>Yeah I've also been burned not having RemainAfterExit=y in a oneshot unit. What's worse, such an unit can get started multiple times.
You live and you learn, on its own something like that isn't a huge problem.
>Perhaps having a dependency to start your service before network-manager would have solved this.
It was one in a long-chain of similar issues, but yes. There are a lot of ways I probably could have made this work, but at the end of the day I'm still writing shell scripts and not using very many of systemd's "helpful" features.
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's outlined here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
I don't care about a 50 year old technology philosophy. Times have changed. Cloud computing and the prevalence of highly distributed systems have completely changed how software is deployed, scaled, and managed. These environments often rely on complex orchestration which can stretch the boundaries of the UNIX philosophy towards systems that are more about interactions between distributed components than about simple…
I don't see how it's relevant. An orchestration tool can also follow the Unix way by not implementing too much functionality and relying on the small tools for subtasks.
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#99Ha, systemd is basically my git. I'm always surprised by how many developers don't grok git despite understanding significantly more complex things. I keep thinking if they would just take a day or two, they would get it and then wouldn't complain about having to copy paste commands and "rm -rf && git clone" to fix their workspaces. And yet I do the _exact_ same thing with systemd. I don't get it, I don't like it, an…
Richard Hipp (sqlite author) also finds git a pain even though he understands it so he made fossil
Re: Systemd by Example (2021)
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't care about a 50 year old technology philosophy. Times have changed. Cloud computing and the prevalence of highly distributed systems have completely changed how software is deployed, scaled, and managed. These environments often rely on complex orchestration which can stretch the boundaries of the UNIX philosophy towards systems that are more about interactions between distributed components than about simple…
I don't see how it's relevant. An orchestration tool can also follow the Unix way by not implementing too much functionality and relying on the small tools for subtasks.
Why? For old time’s sake?