Bummer, so all these recent news about Apple allowing push notifications and PWAs to iPhone was for nothing?
Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#72Bummer, so all these recent news about Apple allowing push notifications and PWAs to iPhone was for nothing?
I guess they realized that if they opened up too much of their walled garden, there was no going back.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#73https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I
Apple has become the IBM in their famous 1984 ad. "A garden of pure ideology", indeed.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#74Probably easier to leave the EU than get Apple to listen.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the (admittedly little) I know about how iOS handles security and the speed at which they responded this sounds like a pretty credible explanation to me. What makes you think it isn't?
Because that's literally what it says when you really read into it? They acknowledge that 1) Safari already has all the integrations required to support PWA securely and that 2) they can't be bothered to provide the same API's for third party browsers because it's not "practical". They built their PWA support in an anticompetitive manner assuming App Store & WebKit would be a monopoly forever, and now as a result the…
> Because that's literally what it says when you really read into it?
I know it's used as an intensifier, but this feels like a particularly bad place to use "literally" that way.
> They acknowledge that 1) Safari already has all the integrations required to support PWA securely
Not really sure how to respond to this. An airliner already has all the controls required for being piloted. Why am I not allowed to pilot my next commercial flight?
But my more serious point:
> 2) they can't be bothered to provide the same API's for third party browsers because it's not "practical".
Why are you glossing over "practical" there and putting it in sarcastic quotes?
This sounds like a huge change in the security model given how tightly Safari is integrated with the rest of iOS. Heavily restricting permissions and sometimes functionality to prevent security threats is very consistent with what I've seen from Apple in the past (and is one of the reasons I prefer them).
Even if they intended to open this stuff up, I can't imagine this is a change which wouldn't require massive changes to iOS and a long review and testing process.
> They built their PWA support in an anticompetitive manner assuming App Store & WebKit would be a monopoly forever, and now as a result the baby is going out with the bathwater.
They built their PWA support for the architecture they've had since the iPhone's release. Why should they have wasted time building affordances for a world in which they were forced to support other browsers?
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#76Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the (admittedly little) I know about how iOS handles security and the speed at which they responded this sounds like a pretty credible explanation to me. What makes you think it isn't?
Because that's literally what it says when you really read into it? They acknowledge that 1) Safari already has all the integrations required to support PWA securely and that 2) they can't be bothered to provide the same API's for third party browsers because it's not "practical". They built their PWA support in an anticompetitive manner assuming App Store & WebKit would be a monopoly forever, and now as a result the…
This is why I purchase iOS devices - ultimately their closed garden provides a smaller attack surface, clearly evidenced by the comparative (to Android) cost of exploits on the black market.
I cannot see this as anticompetitive. If you want open, you have that choice in Android.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting that. I'm no iOS expert but it actually sounds like a pretty reasonable explanation. It's at least good to hear Apple's side here, and more knowledgeable commenters here can weigh in as to whether it really does seem genuine.
Sure it's reasonable ... because of course all these browsers don't have a security model and just allow web apps to do whatever they want. This is essentially saying no-one can build a secure browser.
No, it’s saying they’re being forced to support at least one insecure browser which would affect the security of an obscure feature so they’re removing the feature.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without this type of isolation and enforcement, malicious... camera, microphone or location ... Browsers ... 30 some million lines of code in chromium browsers. Thats bigger than the linux kernel. The HN crowed might not LIKE apples response but they have a very defensible position. Edit: Its not like we haven't seen this play out on the desktop recently: https://www.theverge.com/24054329/microsoft-edge-automatic-c..…
Why should we trust Apple for security in that context? Apple also provides all those functionalities via their proprietary API, which is not even audit-able. If Apple really believes in that argument, they should disable their own API as well.
You have to trust someone if you're using a computing device connected to the Internet. The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, and then (supposedly) you can not trust anyone else. To many that's a very strong proposition.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#80Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…
Seems like an OS problem. They should fix that.
Of course they could. They looked at the cost of rewriting the entire integration and framework for running PWAs and said, "eh, nah."