Earlier quoted context omitted.
Plenty of happy families in my building here in Germany, judging by how active kids are in the playground. Heck, we even have a kindergarten right next to the building, schools within walking distance (and kids actually walk to them - alone), three different groceries within 5 minutes, not a single surface parking lot in sight.
I think the question that was raised is one of preference. How many of them would keep their 80 m^2 urban flat if offered a 250 m^2 suburban detached home? Humans are incredibly adaptive and resilient. I have met happy families living in a garbage dump.
Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
171–180 of 230 posts
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What if we allowed people to live in basically confinment cells and they have no choice as they're broke af or the gov or their companies assigns them one in a relocation program. But they'd still have the same choice they have now. Pay more for something better. Right now their choice is to pay more, potentially sacrificing something even worse, or to be homeless. Presumably the small living space is better than h…
> Right now their choice is to pay more, potentially sacrificing something even worse, or to be homeless That logic doesn't work when the resident isn't paying the house, or not in full. A locality mandating housing is one example: if they go for the bare and cheapest minimum to fullfil an obligation for a specified number of houses, allowing for basement closets will result in more basement closets, without anyone b…
The root problem here is that you're trying to mandate housing rather than adopting policies that allow market rate housing to be affordable. When there is demand for housing and no law prohibiting it, people build housing. You shouldn't have to mandate it unless you're already screwing it up to begin with.
But even if you were to mandate some specific construction, you could set minimum requirements for that without prohibiting someone else who is under no obligation to build anything from building something inexpensive without those requirements.
> An employer providing rooms for employees is another.
Which doesn't even happen in urban environments unless it's some kind of tax dodge and then it's being supplied to affluent employees who aren't going to live in a closet.
Can you name a single company that actually does this for low wage employees in e.g. New York City?
> I see it the same way as minimum wages. Putting the bar too high is penalizing for everyone, but lowering it to the ground only breeds a hellscape.
I see it the same way as minimum wages. A worthless policy that doesn't even solve the problem it's supposed to solve, often makes it worse, and would have no purpose or effect in the event that we solved it properly.
It's also not really even that debatable that we've set the bar too high for housing. Never mind requirements for windows, we have requirements for parking and, in many areas lawns that consume the majority of the lot which in itself can only have a building of a low maximum height.
> But it's only a potential.
It's not a hypothetical, it's a thing that happens in particular circumstances -- namely the undersupply of housing. If you can fix that then it wouldn't happen but you wouldn't need it to.
> And the other side is not hypothetical, it's what we had before the regulations, and it was bad enough that people agreed to put rules in place.
People put the rules in place to price the "undesirables" out of the area, not to help them out.
If you were trying to help them out you wouldn't prohibit the only housing they can afford, you would adopt policies that result in the creation of lots of new housing that causes the market price of a quality unit with lots of natural light to fall to the price they can afford.
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Plenty of happy families in my building here in Germany, judging by how active kids are in the playground. Heck, we even have a kindergarten right next to the building, schools within walking distance (and kids actually walk to them - alone), three different groceries within 5 minutes, not a single surface parking lot in sight.
I think the question that was raised is one of preference. How many of them would keep their 80 m^2 urban flat if offered a 250 m^2 suburban detached home? Humans are incredibly adaptive and resilient. I have met happy families living in a garbage dump.
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#174Paywall: https://archive.is/meem7 >
Archive doesn't seem to work for me for bloomberg articles anymore, I dunno why. I can only access ones archived by others
If the former, switch to a DNS provider other than Cloudflare, if at all possible.
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is one of my nightmares. What if we allowed people to live in basically confinment cells and they have no choice as they're broke af or the gov or their companies assigns them one in a relocation program. > My gut feeling is that the social consequences would be subtle and easily overlooked by officials but widespread and long lasting. The social consequences of getting rid of tenements have been people sleepi…
There was plenty of homelessness in the era of tenements too.
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#176> The magnitude of the crisis is up for debate. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said last week that losses in commercial real estate are a worry, but that the situation is “manageable,” a similar sentiment expressed by Fed Chair Jerome Powell in a 60 Minutes interview on Feb. 4. Others have more dire outlooks, with real estate investor Barry Sternlicht predicting $1 trillion in office losses. Fuck man. Another ‘08 si…
Unto itself, would losses in commercial real estate cross over into residential or would it require a broader market slump a la ‘08?
- As the commercial market is a large investment arm for financial institutions, a collapse in the commercial market can cause a credit crunch (banks don't have enough money to provide loans like they used to). Making it more difficult for people to get mortgages or loans for residential property.
- As the commercial market falls, investors and developers will begin looking toward the residential market for their investments. This could lead to an increase in residential housing availability. However, I believe this would exacerbate the trend of "build-to-rent" communities as it would provide the developer/investors with consistent, predictable, monthly income.
Ultimately, a "collapse" of the commercial real estate market would severely negatively impact the residential housing market due to consolidation. If renting out office towers is no longer profitable, why not rent out entire housing communities? And since banks are crunched and may have to further restrict their mortgage and lending practices, low and middle-class people could be further locked out of homeownership.
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#177Only speaking from my personal travel experiences, not any hard data, but: I feel like this issue is nearly non-existent in places with mixed use zoning. If the office values go down in a place with equal amounts of housing, they are repurposed as new apartments. The problem is when the office architecture isn’t interchangeable with apartment architecture, which usually happens because certain areas are zoned as offi…
THis is a nice thought but rarely happens regardless of zoning. Office buildings floor plates and residential floor plates aren't really compatable. Office buildings have most of their floor plates not around windows, where are residential needs some light. Also water, and sewer need to be retrofitted. The one building that was a successful conversion that I know of cut out the center of the building to create a ligh…
That’s not the case everywhere. In ‘Europe’ (I don’t know what set of countries this applies to), workers must be able to get sufficient natural daylight.
https://www.kingspan.com/ie/en/knowledge-articles/what-is-en...:
“To comply with the minimum recommendations for indoor spaces lit with windows or curtain walling, over 50% of the space must achieve 300 lux for more than half the daylight hours in the year. In addition, to prevent particularly gloomy areas being created within a room, a backstop value of 100 lux has to be met across the entire space for the same period.
If rooflights are used to provide daylight into the space, then the requirements are more demanding with a value of 300 lux required for the whole of the relevant space for at least half of the daylight hours.”
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#178If someone wanted to take a diversified, low-cost position in office reits, what would one buy?
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
So is your argument that we have to have bad regulation because if we don't, we might have bad regulation?
My argument is those buildings should be primarily used for something else. Have some housing in the "good" parts, but use the rest another way.
This is the road to hell. Anyone can always come up with an excuse for why something shouldn't be done and if you accept them all then nothing ever gets built and people can't afford to live.
Construction requirements should be for things that are profoundly dangerous and not obvious, like having circuit breakers on electrical circuits or constructing buildings that are structurally sound or having fire exits.
Anybody can see how many windows or bathrooms a place has and you don't die if you get your natural light from going outside or occasionally have to wait in line for the facilities.
Re: Commercial property deals in the US are starting to pick up at deep discounts
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is one of my nightmares. What if we allowed people to live in basically confinment cells and they have no choice as they're broke af or the gov or their companies assigns them one in a relocation program. > My gut feeling is that the social consequences would be subtle and easily overlooked by officials but widespread and long lasting. The social consequences of getting rid of tenements have been people sleepi…
There was plenty of homelessness in the era of tenements too.