Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

benjaminschneider.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–207 of 207 posts

Re: Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

#201

Post by laurencerowe »

cyberax wrote: post #185
laurencerowe wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Urban density is pollution. Its effects are not limited to cities. This is simply not the case. People living in dense walkable urban areas produce far less pollution than those living in the suburbs who need to drive much more and require far more infrastructure per household. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/its-not-just-cities-subur...

Nah. It's just a propaganda piece. Switching from gas cars to EVs and downsizing from barn-sized SUVs to medium-sized cars will solve the emissions issues. Moreover, extrapolating the self-driving vehicles trend a bit, mild automated car-pooling will completely negate emissions advantage of EVERY other intracity public transit method.

Even with EVs you still need to create far more infrastructure per person in the suburbs than in denser cities. When you remove most of the cars, walkable cities can be really pleasant places.

Re: Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

#202

Post by solumunus »

inglor_cz wrote: post #170
solumunus wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only answer is that housing as an investment needs to be banned, it’s just too damaging. Not only is it making people poorer by the decade, eventually leading to a dead economy, it’s completely unproductive. Imagine if all that money were to be invested in business instead.

I am not sure if you can "rule investments by fiat" like this. People invest in housing because they distrust investment in businesses, or at least expect smaller returns. That has some underlying cause. If you ban investment into housing, it does not follow that people will start trusting businesses more and give them their money. I would rather expect the money to find some hitherto unexpected side channel elsewher…

> I would rather expect the money to find some hitherto unexpected side channel elsewhere.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? It seems obvious that people would just put their money in the stock market or bonds like they do already.

Re: Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

#203

Post by inglor_cz »

solumunus wrote: post #202
inglor_cz wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if you can "rule investments by fiat" like this. People invest in housing because they distrust investment in businesses, or at least expect smaller returns. That has some underlying cause. If you ban investment into housing, it does not follow that people will start trusting businesses more and give them their money. I would rather expect the money to find some hitherto unexpected side channel elsewher…

> I would rather expect the money to find some hitherto unexpected side channel elsewhere. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? It seems obvious that people would just put their money in the stock market or bonds like they do already.

"It seems obvious that people would just put their money in the stock market or bonds like they do already."

Not obvious to me, but a lot would depend on the details.

The GP wishes for a law(?) that would ban investing into homes, but how do you even do that? As long as new construction is capital-extensive (and it won't stop) and at the same time subject to artificial scarcity by incessant vetoing of higher density developments, every sqm of living space in desirable places will generate huge returns to someone. So the loose capital will look for ways how to soak into mortar and bricks again, only perhaps more convoluted ways instead of directly.

The only way to break this combination is to remove the artificial scarcity, at which moment the entire field becomes a lot more competitive, and in competitive fields, prices generally sink.

Re: Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

#204

Post by johngladtj »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #146
imgabe wrote: post #114

There is no code to crack. Just build more housing and it will become affordable. If it’s not affordable, you haven’t built enough yet. It’s crazy how these cities will try literally anything except building more housing.

Not necessarily. The housing market is very complex, and there is such a thing as induced demand - for example building lots more apartments in SF would make it even more attractive for e.g. tech companies to locate, and so they would quickly be filled, without moving the price.

Induced demand does not exist, it is literally not a thing.

The demand was there, the cost was just too high to satisfy it.

Re: Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

#205

Post by rcbdev »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #173
rcbdev wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people can live in a rent-capped MRG apartment for two years and then immediately qualify for social housing and stay there until the day they drop dead - seems like a very affordable system to me, nonetheless. The salaries are comparably horrible and that probably plays its part too in the equation, for sure, but on the other hand the salaries would also have to be higher if the state government didn't do such…

>seems like a very affordable system to me First question: How do you get in that system? Or is it reserved only for locals? Because I contemplated moving to Vienna last year (most livable city, lowest rents and all that advertising) and I saw on Willhaben single bedroom apartments in decent shape were 1000+ Euros while software developer take home wages and perks weren't higher than in shitholes like Bucharest, Belg…

> How do you get in that system? Or is it reserved only for locals?

Any EU resident that has lived anywhere in Vienna for two years "gets in". After that, you either have to be under 30 or be below a certain income threshold at the time of getting the apartment. After you moved in you can earn however much you like - it doesn't matter. Some highly-ranked politicians still live in social housing because of this.

I've lived in a private single-bedroom apartment for ~300€ a month in Penzing (14th district) for a short while - there's plenty of older style apartments from before 1950 that are rent-capped through the MRG, so the owners can't charge too much for them. Vienna is big - not everywhere is the 1st district.

> Why then aren't more international tech companies opening offices in Vienna

Many international "old-school" tech companies like IBM are in fact heavily building work force in Vienna again due to the low labor cost (and point this out incessantly in DACH meetings - often to the displeasure of Austrians hearing how 'cheap' they are.) The issue is that for service-based work, most companies still near-shore to Romania, Czechia, Slovakia etc. since staff costs and taxes are considerably lower and you are spared the traditional regular strong union negotiations. Adding to this that Vienna is just culturally not a very techy or innovative place, never has been. And you can see and feel that with the (lack of) innovation happening. Many of my friends left to study in Graz, Munich or Zurich out right - they were usually the best of the best. Good tech talent here moves to Germany, Switzerland or even further westwards eventually for the salary.

But - on the other hand - Vienna is trying to build a start-up ecosystem with things like Brutkasten and success stories like Bitpanda and their start-up space in the Viertel Zwei area (2nd district).

Don't get me wrong, I love my city, but for various cultural reasons the move fast and break things tech mantra isn't something that leads to success here.

Re: Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

#206

Post by robomartin »

reverius42 wrote: post #194
robomartin wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what you value in a place to live in Sanity and reason would be a good starting point. California is like dating a beautiful supermodel who is an horrible person. Everyone sees the outside and thinks "How lucky". Nobody know she the person she is inside that exterior. It didn't use to be like this. There's only one reason it got this way, and that is the support of a putrid ideology that has, throughou…

> a putrid ideology that has, throughout history and across the world, destroyed everything it has touched Does this ideology have a name?

It’s the ideologies that have destroyed virtually all of Latin America and countless other nations throughout history.

The President of Argentina has done a pretty good job of laying out the case. Watch his videos. Gloria Alvarez is another person who has been speaking about this for years.

The good news is that we don’t have to base this on opinions. It’s a matter of historical fact across many nations over at least 100 years.

Re: Has LA cracked the code for building affordable housing?

#207

Post by FirmwareBurner »

rcbdev wrote: post #205
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>seems like a very affordable system to me First question: How do you get in that system? Or is it reserved only for locals? Because I contemplated moving to Vienna last year (most livable city, lowest rents and all that advertising) and I saw on Willhaben single bedroom apartments in decent shape were 1000+ Euros while software developer take home wages and perks weren't higher than in shitholes like Bucharest, Belg…

> How do you get in that system? Or is it reserved only for locals? Any EU resident that has lived anywhere in Vienna for two years "gets in". After that, you either have to be under 30 or be below a certain income threshold at the time of getting the apartment. After you moved in you can earn however much you like - it doesn't matter. Some highly-ranked politicians still live in social housing because of this. I've…

Thanks for your info.
Post reply on HN