Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Goodbye Auth0

joshcanhelp.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 281 posts

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#101

Post by Hamuko »

DrBazza wrote: post #68
mytailorisrich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the "European culture", which I am not sure exists as one on this issue. I have seen many times people be quickly "locked out" when being laid off. A term for this in the UK is "garden leave" because you're still paid but you're told not to work or come to the office anymore. As the case may be this makes sense in order to avoid any issues (from bad blood in the office to actively malicious actions) and,…

I've seen the 'bad blood' issue happen at a place I formerly worked at, that I refer to as 'MegaBank' (which isn't short of the truth). One was developer that seemingly left on good terms, but sneakily deleted a load of prod data as he was 'clearing down his inbox', and another that smashed up an office. Which was why, after the latter, the 'reduction in force' meetings were conducted on a separate floor with securit…

I don't think that's what was referred to as "bad blood".

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#102

Post by mgaunard »

rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

In Europe, for some jobs, you'll be granted garden leave, i.e. you can stay home during your notice and still be paid.

It's essentially a mechanism where they avoid having someone with a negative mentality that's not going to work hard anyway around the office.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#103

Post by sokoloff »

Scarblac wrote: post #35
sushibowl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the answer is pretty simply due to the difference in laws. In the US no notice is legally required. As you noted, employees that already know their employment is shortly coming to an end generally don't perform to the same level. Therefore it is in the company's interest to give no advance notice whatsoever until employment is officially, actually terminated. In every European country, there's a legal require…

> Therefore it is in the company's interest to give no advance notice whatsoever until employment is officially, actually terminated. That doesn't follow at all. The notice period exists so you can transfer your knowledge and projects to colleagues who will take over your work. If the notice period is in the company interest when people leave on their own, it's also in the company's interest when they have to leave?

The big difference between those two cases is when it's the company's decision, they have plenty of opportunity to plan for the transition and may frequently conclude that they've done enough for the transition before the conversation with the employee.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#104

Post by mytailorisrich »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #21
Keirmot wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garden leave also happens in Portugal, but only when the relation between employer and employee deteriorated to the point of no return. As an example in the same company I had a co-worker layed off with 3 months notice, while in the previous year a different person in the same team was called to HR during the day, and let go - we all found out he was fired on the next daily stand up.

Well, if you're fired it's either that your performance was inadequate or that you did something serious enough. In the latter case, in general there is no notice period and in the former, well obviously they don't want you around anymore...

For those who might not know: To be fired is not the same thing as being laid off. To be fired meand being at fault, hence my previous comment.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#105

Post by mytailorisrich »

rglullis wrote: post #98
atemerev wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there are not many countries where people actually trust institutions (and, above all, the government). Perhaps Germany, Nordic countries, Netherlands, Japan, maybe a few more. In Switzerland, we work with the government, and are generally OK with it, but proceed cautiously, as if it could explode any second. In Spain and France already, government is considered an inefficient nuisance. In many places in South…

Ok, but there are two institutions here: corporations and governments . Who do you think that Southern Europeans relatively trust more of those?

Neither. Europeans tend to be cynical and more in the South than in the North.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#106

Post by Someone »

kypro wrote: post #40
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

This does seem to be a lot more common in the US, I actually had this happen to me while working for a US company and the author's experience was very relatable – I was immediately locked out of my accounts and couldn't even say goodbye to the people I had been working with for the last several years (I was working remotely at the time). But I've seen it in the UK too... Specifically one corporate I worked for sent a…

A reason I’ve heard for not keeping those laid off around is that you want those who stay to look to the future, not to what was, and that’s what those who got fired will do, because they don’t have a future at the company.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#107

Post by pm90 »

I can’t help but wonder about all the people who can’t express themselves as well as this Author. No shade on them, Im glad to have read about their journey. But the cynical part of me wonders about all the other affected folks, and what their perspective was about their tenure.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#108

Post by sokoloff »

tjpnz wrote: post #33
maxehmookau wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until America wakes up and reads this thread. The anti-union feeling over there is very peculiar to Europeans.

I like the idea of unions but not in tech.. blah blah.. meritocracy.. yadda yadda.. I can't afford union fees on my 600k salary.. something something.

I think for most it's not a matter of "can't afford", but rather closer to "don't think it's a use of money that will benefit me over the alternative."

As a parallel: I can easily afford to buy a new car; I choose to buy used cars because it's a better use of money than the alternative.

Many engineers are rational optimizers by nature.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#109

Post by StreetChief »

rglullis wrote: post #24
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

Americans don't understand/trust/respect institutions. Because they don't trust institutions, if someone that is working for a company and does something bad, or is shown to be corrupt, it will affect the public perception of the company , not of the individual. Also, because Americans don't trust institutions, a lot of the internal processes and cultural values are upheld by the individuals, and how strongly this is…

The vast majority of employment in the US is so called "at will," which means an employee can be fired at any time for any reason, except an illegal one. And good luck with proving it was in fact an illegal one. Our "contracts" are barely worth the bits we use to store them. Why would we trust the company at all in this situation? It would be a mistake for every single person to take management at face value.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#110

Post by sokoloff »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #67
progbits wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You trusted them with that access yesterday, and they are not being fired for cause (eg. stealing company secrets), so why don't you trust them today? This sort of thing only really happens in US companies (see lots of other comments in this thread on this), and maybe that should be a clue this isn't "security practice".

> so why don't you trust them today Because they heard about being laid off this morning and who knows what goes through the mind of a laid off person.

Exactly this. The company just subjected the individual to an enormous amount of stress that didn't exist yesterday coupled with the fact that the long-term payoff to them of "don't act like a jackass at work" has just changed a lot.
Post reply on HN