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Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

rosenzweig.io

71–80 of 118 posts

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#71

This is for Fedora on the M1. It would be amazing to get this for macOS. What's involved in pulling something like that off?

I think Apple bans third party kernel drivers? To write a proper Vulkan or OpenGL implementation you need a kernel counterpart for handling the GPU if I understand correctly. That's probably the reason no one bothers implementing native Vulkan for macOS.

But if it's doable with Apple's driver - then not sure.

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#72
post #56

One day, Apple will deprecate opengl 3.3 core, and I guess everybody might end up deprecating it. I've read that generally opengl is just easier to use than vulkan, I don't know if that's true, but if something is too complicated, it becomes just too hard for less experienced devs to exploit those GPU, and it becomes a barrier to entry, which might discourage some indie game developers. Although everyone uses unity a…

> One day, Apple will deprecate opengl 3.3 core, and I guess everybody might end up deprecating it.

And here I am, recalling all the games and programs that failed once OpenGL 2.0 was implemented because they required OpenGL 1.1 or 1.2 but just checked the minor version number... time flies!

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#73
post #56

One day, Apple will deprecate opengl 3.3 core, and I guess everybody might end up deprecating it. I've read that generally opengl is just easier to use than vulkan, I don't know if that's true, but if something is too complicated, it becomes just too hard for less experienced devs to exploit those GPU, and it becomes a barrier to entry, which might discourage some indie game developers. Although everyone uses unity a…

OpenGL is not deprecated, it is simpler and continues to be used where Vulkan is overkill. Using it for greenfields is a good choice if it covers all your needs (and if you don't mind the stateful render pipeline).

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#74
post #73
post #56

One day, Apple will deprecate opengl 3.3 core, and I guess everybody might end up deprecating it. I've read that generally opengl is just easier to use than vulkan, I don't know if that's true, but if something is too complicated, it becomes just too hard for less experienced devs to exploit those GPU, and it becomes a barrier to entry, which might discourage some indie game developers. Although everyone uses unity a…

OpenGL is not deprecated, it is simpler and continues to be used where Vulkan is overkill. Using it for greenfields is a good choice if it covers all your needs (and if you don't mind the stateful render pipeline).

It kind of is, OpenGL 4.6 is the very last version, the red book only covers until OpenGL 4.5, and some hardware vendors are now shipping OpenGL on top of Vulkan or DirectX, instead of providing native OpenGL drivers.

While not officially deprecated, it is standing still and won't get anything newer past 2017 hardware, not even newer extensions are being made available.

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#75

I find it very amusing that transitioning out of bounds accesses from traps to returning some random data is called “robustness”. Graphics programming certainly is weird.

This is one of the reasons why C and C++ have a rosy life ahead of themselves on graphics, HPC, HEP, HFT domains.

In domains where "performance trumps safety" culture reigns, talking about other programing languages is like talking to a wall.

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#76
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it still got its ass kicked by Direct3D because Microsoft made better stuff. Better API, better tooling, better debuggability. Honestly, it would've been better to leave OpenGL to the legacy CAD vendors and standardize on Direct3D roundabout 1997 or so.

Well, except for only working on xbox and windows, which pretty much destroys it as a viable direct target for modern games or apps. > Honestly, it would've been better to leave OpenGL to the legacy CAD vendors and standardize on Direct3D roundabout 1997 or so. If you remember what Microsoft was like in those days, the chances of D3D being standardized in a viable way on any platform but windows were about the same c…

Nintendo and Sony 3D APIs are also exlusive to their consoles, people keep forgeting about them.

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#77
post #8

Kind of crazy to think that the only reason OpenGL was ever a thing for 3D gaming was because of John Carmack's obsession with using it for Quake II back in the 90s.

John Carmack a couple of years later, back in 2011:

> Speaking to bit-tech for a forthcoming Custom PC feature about the future of OpenGL in PC gaming, Carmack said 'I actually think that Direct3D is a rather better API today.' He also added that 'Microsoft had the courage to continue making significant incompatible changes to improve the API, while OpenGL has been held back by compatibility concerns. Direct3D handles multi-threading better, and newer versions manage state better.'

> It is really just inertia that keeps us on OpenGL at this point,' Carmack told us. He also explained that the developer has no plans to move over to Direct3D, despite its advantages.

From https://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/pc/carmack-directx-bett...

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quake is just (a probably small (not wanting to dimish it, of course)) part of the history. SGI and the enormous effort to get compliant implementations on many different systems and architectures are what made OpenGL what it eventually became.

I think both SGI and Quake were absolutely crucial. Without Quake, OpenGL would have remained an extremely niche thing for professional CAD and modeling software. And Microsoft would have completely owned the 3D gaming API space. Quake (and Quake 2, and Quake 3, and the many games that licensed those engines) really opened the floodgates in terms of mass market users demanding OpenGL capabilities (or at least a subse…

Microsoft never owned the 3D gaming API space, SEGA, Sony and Nintendo also have/had their own APIs.

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#79
post #73
post #56

One day, Apple will deprecate opengl 3.3 core, and I guess everybody might end up deprecating it. I've read that generally opengl is just easier to use than vulkan, I don't know if that's true, but if something is too complicated, it becomes just too hard for less experienced devs to exploit those GPU, and it becomes a barrier to entry, which might discourage some indie game developers. Although everyone uses unity a…

OpenGL is not deprecated, it is simpler and continues to be used where Vulkan is overkill. Using it for greenfields is a good choice if it covers all your needs (and if you don't mind the stateful render pipeline).

It is officially deprecated on all Apple platforms, and has been for five years now.

Whether it will actually stop working anytime soon is a different question; but it is not a supported API.

Re: Conformant OpenGL 4.6 on the M1

#80
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely isn’t ready for use as a daily driver. There are lots of bits missing (see below for an example) and power management isn’t great compared to macOS.

How so? I'm daily driving it as my only machine since November.sure there are missing features but none that are really essential for most people.

You and I have very different work environments for you to be able to claim that microphones aren't essential for most people.
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