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European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

eureporter.co

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Re: European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

#51

Post by noir_lord »

stranded22 wrote: post #48
iamthirsty wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the UK Online Safety Bill will be overturned by domestic courts (or the European Court) on the basis of this ruling. The UK wants to leave the ECHR[0], so they might be able to get around it — unfortunately. — [0]: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/03/uk-must-not-sleepwalk-l...

The UK DOES NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE ECHR. Select people in the government want to, not the whole of UK.

To tack onto this I don't think most people in the UK understand what the ECHR does and why leaving the EU didn't alter our obligations under the ECHR.

The media carries a lot of responsibility for that but not all of it - nearly every person in the UK carries a little box with access to a huge chunk of the sum total of all human knowledge, they just choose to not to use it.

If that sounds elitist or arrogant it's because I've about reached my limit with ignorant people refusing to understand the world is messy and complex.

Re: European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

#53

Post by guappa »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14
AJ007 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "e2e" concept that most are familiar with is basically fake: the provider is responsible for the client that does the encryption and decryption. Of course they can break it if forced. Software exploits are a separate matter and also easier to deal with when the end user isn't truly in control of the encryption (or easier if they don't know what they are doing.)

If the client is properly developed and secured, they cannot break it without shipping an update to that client to change its behavior - which then affects everyone.

I'm quite sure they can use the app store to push a targeted update just to some.

Re: European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

#54

Post by max_ »

guappa wrote: post #52
max_ wrote: post #43

Europe has done something that I actually love. I was worried the "let's think of the children" narrative would take over. The value of encryption has a future in Europe at least.

Despite the name, it's not the eu :D

I was assuming it had jurisdiction over the EU?

What is the actual real world impact of this?

Re: European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

#55

Post by tailspin2019 »

stranded22 wrote: post #48
iamthirsty wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the UK Online Safety Bill will be overturned by domestic courts (or the European Court) on the basis of this ruling. The UK wants to leave the ECHR[0], so they might be able to get around it — unfortunately. — [0]: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/03/uk-must-not-sleepwalk-l...

The UK DOES NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE ECHR. Select people in the government want to, not the whole of UK.

Good clarification.

Personally I just hope we can remove those “select people” from office before they can actually carry out their plan.

Re: European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

#56

Post by cycomanic »

krastanov wrote: post #30
tokai wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a judgement that will provide precedence. A Pirate Party member of the European Parliament comments because its a core issue to the party. Why would there be anything about the Pirate Party in the ruling?

I thought precedents only matter in the US "common law" framework, but most of the EU is following the "civil law" framework where precedents do not matter. Does this precedent really matter?

While precedence is not the same thing in civil law as in common law, this is essentially a ruling by the highest European court on the interpretation of a law and its conflict with human rights. These rulings are typically on the matter of principle, so it does effectively "bind" lower courts and because of this the court is very unlikely to take on another case on the same "conflict" (at least before the law has been changed).

Re: European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

#58

Post by yreg »

max_ wrote: post #54
guappa wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the name, it's not the eu :D

I was assuming it had jurisdiction over the EU? What is the actual real world impact of this?

The European Court of Human Rights enforces the European Convention on Human Rights.

Its jurisdiction is recognised by the 46 member states of Council of Europe (which includes all of the 27 EU members) + Kosovo.

Re: European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure end-to-end encryption

#60

Post by Deukhoofd »

max_ wrote: post #54
guappa wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the name, it's not the eu :D

I was assuming it had jurisdiction over the EU? What is the actual real world impact of this?

It's a part of the Council of Europe, which includes all European countries besides Russia and Belarus (who got kicked out last year). It has no real enforcement powers for its judgements, though most countries do adopt most its judgements, and it has pushed human rights in Europe forward a lot.

While the EU could potentially just ignore the statement, there's a good chance they won't, especially as the European Parliament already tends to be against weakening encryption.

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