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The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

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Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#21

Post by xaa »

scarmig wrote: post #19

This article is tailor made for a lot of Nelson Muntz-ish "HAHA"s. 1) Gloating over your own skills being in demand can be short-sighted. How many of the people here were thinking, "wow, I'm really passionate about medieval history, but I'll go into software development because that's where the big bucks are?" I'd hazard to say none: people choose to do what they enjoy, not what will make them money. Just because you…

Yep at #1. Perhaps, as an exercise in empathy, people here could imagine how their lives would change if, due to "supply and demand", programmer salaries dropped to $20k/year.

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#22

Post by cageface »

These people could come to SE Asia and actually make more money teaching basic English, in cities where the cost of living is 1/4th or less that of any US city. The English teachers I talked to in Hanoi said they couldn't spend their entire salary there if they tried.

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#23

Post by sunsu »

kijin wrote: post #15
wtvanhest wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still over supplied. If it weren't then colleges would be forced to hire tenure track professors to fill the positions since there wouldn't be enough people to teach.

Why would colleges want to hire tenure-track professors if adjuncts can teach the same number of students for less money? The full-time vs. adjunct debate has nothing to do with whether college is over- or under-supplied. It's a problem with how colleges supply whatever it is that they supply.

"Why would colleges want to hire tenure-track professors if adjuncts can teach the same number of students for less money?" That is precisely the point. There is an oversupply of people willing to do the job and thus people are willing to do it for less money (teaching adjunct). If there were a shortage, then the university would be forced to pay more and give more benefits (hire tenure track).

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#25

Post by YuriNiyazov »

jbooth wrote: post #17
wtvanhest wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still over supplied. If it weren't then colleges would be forced to hire tenure track professors to fill the positions since there wouldn't be enough people to teach.

Oversupplied compared to what? Just because there's no immediate industrial benefit to medieval studies doesn't mean that there's no overall societal benefit from liberal arts programs. If you took a strict Econ 101 view of this, there would be no medieval studies professors in the whole country.

"If you took a strict Econ 101 view of this, there would be no medieval studies professors in the whole country."

I don't believe that. (note that I am the guy who originally made the "zero pity" comment) Knowing how society developed from medieval times into the Renaissance is very valuable, especially from the point of view of someone who studies history of technology, markets, and means of production. Within that context, there is most definitely demand for professors of medieval studies.

The conversation really is about how there isn't enough demand for dozens of medieval studies experts every year. Perhaps there would be demand for a dozen every five years or so.

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#26

Post by YuriNiyazov »

gjm11 wrote: post #24
YuriNiyazov wrote: post #2

Does it make me a bad human being if I feel zero pity for highly educated people who do not understand the basics of supply and demand in their chosen job market?

Since you ask: Yes, actually, it does.

By what moral standard?

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#27

Post by Agathos »

StevenRayOrr wrote: post #11
YuriNiyazov wrote: post #2

Does it make me a bad human being if I feel zero pity for highly educated people who do not understand the basics of supply and demand in their chosen job market?

Medieval History, English, & Film Studies. I shouldn't throw stones, because my chosen discipline of Political Theory is not exactly a bustling field. But: what did they think they were getting into? Education for the sake of education is fine, but it is incredibly difficult to take care of a family when you completely ignore economics. Study what you love, sure, but don't expect that it will lead you to financial su…

They do exactly what people outside of academia do: look at those who came before. They see their advisors doing fine. Academia is weirdly deceptive in that way.

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#28

Post by phamilton »

scarmig wrote: post #19

This article is tailor made for a lot of Nelson Muntz-ish "HAHA"s. 1) Gloating over your own skills being in demand can be short-sighted. How many of the people here were thinking, "wow, I'm really passionate about medieval history, but I'll go into software development because that's where the big bucks are?" I'd hazard to say none: people choose to do what they enjoy, not what will make them money. Just because you…

I don't think people only have one passion. I personally have a passion for pure mathematics and number theory. My passion for software and hardware comes in a close enough second that I chose to focus my career on development rather than pure mathematics.

I was all set to double major in mathematic when I got married. When my wife and I had our first kid I decided to finish up a Computer Engineering degree and enter the workforce rather than take an extra year to finish the math major.

Sometimes you have to find something you enjoy enough. I absolutely enjoy programming, but it still doesn't come close to how fascinating I find number theory.

Everyone has options, and they make (or should make) their choices fully aware of the likely outcomes.

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#29

Post by vectorpush »

Supplemental skills are essential, even for us fancy-pants code warriors. On the day they were awarded their degrees, the half dozen buddies I have who graduated as computer science majors could barley fizz-buzz their way out of a shot glass; it took a lot of studying, experimentation, and self-direction outside the classroom before they really came into their own as valuable professionals.

Software is a lucrative career path, but a college education from most universities is almost worthless on its face. Degree holders with a dim economic outlook need to consider the value in supplementing their education with a skill set that allows them to capitalize on their specialized knowledge.

Re: The Ph.D. Now Comes With Food Stamps

#30

Post by YuriNiyazov »

xaa wrote: post #21
scarmig wrote: post #19

This article is tailor made for a lot of Nelson Muntz-ish "HAHA"s. 1) Gloating over your own skills being in demand can be short-sighted. How many of the people here were thinking, "wow, I'm really passionate about medieval history, but I'll go into software development because that's where the big bucks are?" I'd hazard to say none: people choose to do what they enjoy, not what will make them money. Just because you…

Yep at #1. Perhaps, as an exercise in empathy, people here could imagine how their lives would change if, due to "supply and demand", programmer salaries dropped to $20k/year.

Believe it or not, I imagine that all the time, and keep a long list of subjects that I casually read about on the side as a hedge.

The first thing I would do is ditch programming as a means of producing a living, and only do it as a hobby, and immediately reorganize my life to transition to a field that pays what programmer salaries are now.

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