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Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

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Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#161

Post by acdha »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #151
acdha wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

€2000 is less than half of the average income for Albania and the poorest one in the EU is Bulgaria at 5 times that much.

Monthly...not yearly. I don't know how or where you got those numbers but at this point I'd rather end the conversation here.

Here’s the source:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.ADJ.NNTY.PC.CD?locat...

I assumed you meant yearly because the idea that someone would be able to afford a €400 phone but not a €500 phone just doesn’t make sense when you’re talking about monthly income. Someone making €2k monthly is looking at less 1% of their annual income difference for a device they’ll buy once or twice per decade. It’s a noticeable amount of money, sure, but I’d be quite surprised if that was the area they’d feel a priority to economize.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#162

Post by jandrewrogers »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #150
jandrewrogers wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also use WhatsApp and Signal as a daily driver. iMessage is legitimately superior to all other messaging platforms I've used, and it isn't close. iMessage isn't just a text messaging app, it also serves as a shared application fabric. The many iOS objects and apps are integrated into iMessage as first-class things that can be securely shared and seamlessly collaborated on between groups of people over the iMessage…

In short, all the things Google or Microsoft are criticized for are Okay when Apple does it.

No, it has rather obvious technical implications that people like to pretend do not exist. Those features people use are effectively not portable to other platforms short of making iOS run on other people's hardware. Sure, the messaging might be portable, ignoring the security concerns, but iMessage is used for a lot more than that.

In short, any portable version would still be nerfed, just slightly less nerfed than the current situation. The green bubbles would still be there to indicate that their platform can't support core functionality of iOS inside of iMessage.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#163

Post by cgearhart »

jamesrr39 wrote: post #122
cgearhart wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The diagram was helpful. Have you seen anything similar that summarizes what it means for services to be designated this way? As an aside, it strikes me as vaguely protectionist to see that it’s only 6 companies and none of them are European… (maybe that’s a hot take?)

Not a diagram, but here is the summary of obligations: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/about-dma_en#what-d... > Examples of the “do’s”: gatekeepers will for example have to: > - allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations; > - allow their business users to access the data that they generate in their use of the gatekeeper’s platform; > - provide compa…

I disagree about the benefits for folks in the US. The EU moves comparatively quickly in law and is quite comfortable experimenting with regulations. The US by comparison feels very slow and deferential—almost as if when it’s not explicitly illegal then we should presume there’s no harm. I think any “openness” that leaks out of the EU will just be exploited in the US by platform-level companies to the detriment of individuals, and I have no expectation that US policies or laws will catch up any time soon.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#164

Post by jerojero »

currymj wrote: post #113
jerojero wrote: post #21

The usage of iMessage in Europe is vastly inferior to the usage of it in America. I think that was a reasonable argument from Apple and the European Commission agreed. But the thing is, apple obviously wants for people to use iPhones in Europe and to use their services just like in America. But they are now very much aware that this sort of market dominance won't come for free like it does in the USA.

it's too bad, i was hoping the USA could free ride off European regulation. i would like to see an iMessage app for Android. for me, it's the opposite of the teenager status issues. rather, a lot of older people seem not capable of understanding the difference between iMessage amd SMS - not colorblind, but they seem to not perceive green vs blue bubbles even after it is pointed out. and this has caused me big practic…

Pretty sure Apple is not bringing side loading for apps in America, so I guess these changes won't necessarily trickle down.

I think the USB C change was done world wide simply because it's much more difficult to restrict hardware than software. A lot of software is geo locked.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#165

Post by jerojero »

marcellus23 wrote: post #24
jerojero wrote: post #21

The usage of iMessage in Europe is vastly inferior to the usage of it in America. I think that was a reasonable argument from Apple and the European Commission agreed. But the thing is, apple obviously wants for people to use iPhones in Europe and to use their services just like in America. But they are now very much aware that this sort of market dominance won't come for free like it does in the USA.

I'm curious, in what sense did it come "for free" in the USA?

In certain demographics in the USA (teenagers, young adults) the usage of iMessage is around 90%.

It's a defacto monopoly but nothing is done about it from an anti-monopoly perspective. Such as forcing Apple to adopt open standards and interoperability. This market dominance does have a very real impact in which products people will and can realistically consume.

I think maybe coming from a geeky background we might be quick to think such things are irrelevant but I don't think they are.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#166

Post by EdwardDiego »

crazygringo wrote: post #64
pelorat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lot of people here uses a Mac either. Why spend 1500 euros on a Mac when you can buy a windows laptop for 500-700 that does everything the Mac does.

Because it tends to last for 2-3 times as long and still holds resale value when you finally choose to upgrade. Because of this, entry-level Macs are often actually cheaper in the long run -- and with the M chips they're faster too. And of course generally provide a much higher-quality experience, like trackpad quality, screen quality, etc.

[citation needed] Lot of bold claims there about longevity.

You also forgot "still holds resale value until they drop support for your model in macOS, and then software stops supporting the macOS version you're able to run"

Ask me how I know!

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#167

Post by crazygringo »

alberto180 wrote: post #159
crazygringo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it tends to last for 2-3 times as long and still holds resale value when you finally choose to upgrade. Because of this, entry-level Macs are often actually cheaper in the long run -- and with the M chips they're faster too. And of course generally provide a much higher-quality experience, like trackpad quality, screen quality, etc.

Yeah until they die because the not changeable SSDs has reached their cycles. I see many old ThinkPads still humming in the university library, but not many old macs.

Extraordinarily few people reach the cycle limit of the SSD on their Mac. That's not something to worry about for probably 99.999% of people, so it's just a weird thing to bring up.

And how do you know you're not seeing many old MacBooks? The MBA was launched over a decade and a half ago and it still looks almost identical to a casual observer.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#168

Post by troad »

thejohnconway wrote: post #32
zinekeller wrote: post #3

I'm not surprised by the iMessage decision*, but on the Bing case I'm personally still on the bench. I guess that API-only use is exempt from DMA? * Americans, virtually no one uses iMessage outside your country, or at least to the point that it'll force you to get an iPhone. Even Japan, with their love with iPhones, uses a homegrown service for their messaging needs.

Pretty common in the UK. I think iMessage is common in English speaking countries with high iPhone usage.

> I think iMessage is common in English speaking countries with high iPhone usage.

I can confirm that iMessage is extremely common in Australia. WhatsApp is very uncommon, outside of people with European (and maybe South American?) friends or family to keep in touch with. And given the country's demographics, I suspect there are far more people using WeChat to keep up with their overseas contacts in Aus than there are people using WhatsApp.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#169

Post by evulhotdog »

alberto180 wrote: post #156
retskrad wrote: post #48

I believe the assertion suggesting that iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate. The iMessage platform, in itself, does not possess an inherent quality that renders the iPhone more appealing to consumers. On the contrary, it is the iPhone's inherent appeal that enhances the attractiveness of iMessage. The prestige of the iPhone imparts…

It isn't a status symbol in western Europe. Really Every moron can get one with their 30-50€/Mo contracts, and you see many poor people running around with it

The same goes for in the US, but it certainly is portrayed different there.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#170

Post by bombcar »

ninjakttty wrote: post #139
happyopossum wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More importantly, most Americas do not text anyone outside of the country, and haven't really ever As a dual-citizen of Canada and the US, I'd have to say that's massively overgeneralized. Pretty much every Canadian I know regularly texts with Americans (iMessage or not), which means those Americans are texting with people outside of the Country.

You're not refuting his statement. There are massively way more Americans than Canadians.

And Canada is basically America for the purposes of phone numbers and texting.

What’s Canada’s country code?

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