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I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

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Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#421

Post by JohnFen »

hinkley wrote: post #298
doublebind wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two years ago, I had a similar experience with Chainlink. I underwent hours of interviews and completed an extensive work assignment, only to be offered the job _after a personality test_. Simultaneously, I interviewed at a startup. There, I spent about an hour discussing my experience and providing feedback on their current system with the person who would become my manager. I chose the startup, and it has been the…

Part of being a grownup is coming around to the fact that if someone you just met clearly doesn't trust you, that's 95% about their issues, not yours. Then it becomes a question not of whether you're 'worthy' of a job with these people, but whether you really want to walk into a place that is telegraphing this much paranoia. I don't know how to gracefully bow out of the middle of an interview and I wish I did. What I…

> I don't know how to gracefully bow out of the middle of an interview and I wish I did.

What I do is say something along the lines of "I believe that I would be a poor fit for this position and am withdrawing my application. Thank you for your time and consideration."

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#422

Post by JohnFen »

Brananarchy wrote: post #282
JohnFen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I entirely disagree with that being what the concept of "professionalism" is based on, but I'm also not entirely sure what you're alluding to here, so grain of salt.

Primarily, I'm alluding to it being considered "unprofessional" for queer people to be themselves in the workplace, as that is the particular thorn I've been pricked with. But there are other fun ways "professionalism" has been used to oppress people - from the way Women are expected to dress, to Black hair being treated as unacceptable.

OK, so you aren't really talking about professionalism. You're talking about people using a phony excuse to enable outright discrimination -- which is itself very unprofessional behavior.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#423

Post by AndrewKemendo »

kemayo wrote: post #224
squeaky-clean wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed at Burger King in college, the manager told me I was the only applicant in their system to get above 80% on the personality test. It was incredibly easy things like, "How many minutes are acceptable to show up late for your shift? 5 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, being late is unacceptable". Or "If you knew there were no cameras able to see you, and no other employees around, how much money is okay to…

I took one once (at iZod, I think), which included some tripwire questions. The manager said afterwards that e.g. if you saw "a customer left $0.02 in change on the counter when they left the store, what do you do?" and you picked "I chase them down the block to give it back", that's a sign that you're bullshitting the questions too hard.

But…that’s the right answer

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#424

Post by AndrewKemendo »

lmm wrote: post #370
yvan-eht-nioj wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends if you believe in principle over pragmatism. Personally, for me the amount is irrelevant; action and intent is what matters, so in some contexts $0.02 would absolutely matter to me.

If getting on with your job when a customer has left $0.02 on the counter would be such a severe violation of your principles, you're likely unsuitable for jobs.

As someone who has hired 100+ people over the years, I’m choosing the principled person over the unprincipled one every single time

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#425

Post by lupire »

zie wrote: post #417
kemayo wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took one once (at iZod, I think), which included some tripwire questions. The manager said afterwards that e.g. if you saw "a customer left $0.02 in change on the counter when they left the store, what do you do?" and you picked "I chase them down the block to give it back", that's a sign that you're bullshitting the questions too hard.

Except some people would literally do that. Probably the ones where $.02 is noticeable amounts of money.

The question presupposed it was unnoticeable.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#426

Post by lupire »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #424
lmm wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If getting on with your job when a customer has left $0.02 on the counter would be such a severe violation of your principles, you're likely unsuitable for jobs.

As someone who has hired 100+ people over the years, I’m choosing the principled person over the unprincipled one every single time

I hire people with reasonable principles. Understanding transaction costs and personal responsibility is a principle.

Rigid, extreme fundamentalists with over-simplified principles are not good employees.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#427

Post by lupire »

fardo wrote: post #379
squeaky-clean wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed at Burger King in college, the manager told me I was the only applicant in their system to get above 80% on the personality test. It was incredibly easy things like, "How many minutes are acceptable to show up late for your shift? 5 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, being late is unacceptable". Or "If you knew there were no cameras able to see you, and no other employees around, how much money is okay to…

> "I know some employees are going to try to steal from the register, but why would they admit that in an interview?“ A lot of the time, it’s an unfamiliarity with “test taking as being a test of determining theory of mind of the test-giver”. Rather than answering however they think the test-giver would want the answers to look like, they approach the test with alternative less useful approaches, ones like “holistic…

Except you also have to account for the low IQ test writer being unable to write what they intended to ask.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#428

Post by nomel »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #359
nomel wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're gone because, within the limited time of an interview, it's hard to prove competence with chatting, for yourself, and especially in a way that can be communicated to others in the panel. Most places I've worked, firing is a bad bad thing. It means everyone involved with the hire failed, and morale is hurt by everyone that sees the person let go. When I first started interviewing, this was the method I…

>Getting to a point where this is obvious can take a significant portion of a 45 minute interview I mean, without the project being some huge OS thing it's hard to prove contribution it in any amount of time. I don't mind some simple system design questions to sus that out (and maybe relate it to a work experience to test some validity), but instead it turns into 4 rounds of Leetcode. A waste of time and STILL not ma…

At least for our group, the problem comes in the required defense of the written justification. Coding is a better consistent and objective signal, than passing a free form conversation that's completely different for every candidate. A free form conversation also makes the whole process much more susceptible to bias, which is part of the reason we're urged to have the same interview for each person.

If you have four people on the panel, and they're all trying to piece together something perceived as objective, then you could definitely end up with 4 rounds of leetcode. In our group, we have different people focus on different things, so this doesn't happen.

But, I think we're in agreement. I don't think a "conversation only" approach is good, because at the end of the day you have to make sure someone can actually code. A code only approach isn't good, because it severely limits the context that the person can show competence.

I would love to hear opinions on how I could interview better. I've never heard anyone claim that interviewing is easy, or solved, and I'm definitely not doing that here.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#429

Post by nsxwolf »

js2 wrote: post #344
kemayo wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took one once (at iZod, I think), which included some tripwire questions. The manager said afterwards that e.g. if you saw "a customer left $0.02 in change on the counter when they left the store, what do you do?" and you picked "I chase them down the block to give it back", that's a sign that you're bullshitting the questions too hard.

You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?

What do you mean I'm not helping?!

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#430

Post by wiether »

kuerbel wrote: post #346
zahllos wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very common where I am (Switzerland) and I agree entirely with your conclusion. It's not uncommon to see posts open for over 6 months and it often seems like this is because no candidate is good enough. In the intervening time, a candidate not quite ticking all the boxes but with motivation and energy could have learned what they needed to and moved whatever the project is forward.

Do you think it might be because of the higher salaries? I live in Germany and they hire more easily, even though after usually 6 months it is harder for them to get rid of you than in Switzerland.

As a neighbor with the lowest salaries of the three countries (France) I can say that we have the same issue.

And for me it's clearly a people one.

It can be that the manager don't want to actually hire someone because they have personal interest of using consultants to do the job. Or the manager lack confidence and is looking for a unicorn to avoid making any mistake (probably the most common). Or the manager expectations are disconnected with the job proposal (they want a senior but the salary is for a junior or like said in another comment, they want someone with skills exactly aligned with the tech stack).

Here we have a trial period of at least three months so it's quite easy to get rid of someone if they don't fit but it's rarely used in IT and I don't understand why. And once the trial is over, it's quite hard to get rid of someone. But basically it seems that once your in, if the trial period is used as a quick exit it's mainly by the new employee and not by the company.

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